- McLibel -

Switzerland: Capitalism & Democracy at it's finest

Posted by: Ludwig von Mises ( USA(now wishing it was Switzerland) ) on June 24, 1999 at 12:45:43:

In Reply to: It is the WAY the system is set up. posted by Kilroy on June 21, 1999 at 13:15:52:

: : : : I can't understand what would make people become so involved that they have a debate about a fast food chain. I came accross your page in search of some info about the company, and I feel i have to tell you that Mc Donalds uses recycled paper so you can'y complain about that, and they also have events for charity for those kids who are worse off than we are. So you can't call it a bad company

: : : Oh, that's alright then.
: : : I was worried there for a moment that worker exploitation,

: : The workers can leave.

: Not if they can't find a job anywhere else. Not if they've been brainwashed (You know, the classic "Many of our top people started right where you did!")

Think about this: the only unskilled jobs in the ENTIRE AREA are at McDonalds. If that is the case(which is nearly impossible), the Mcdonalds store will not be able to stay in business anyway.

: : : animal cruelty

: : They don't directly hurt animals, thier providers do.

: And McDonalds pays those providers to do it.

I'm well aware of what happens in the meat industry. The problem is that there are to many levels to avoid what happens. You have the farmers, who sell cattle to the slaughterhouses, who sell the meat to the processers, who sell the meat to fast food companies. I'm disgusted by what goes into a burger, and I would never eat one. However, with so many cattle going into a single meat patty, it is IMPOSSIBLE to avoid some meat that comes from tortured animals, animals on destroyed rainforest land, etc.

: : : and making enormous profit from selling crap food might be a problem.

: : What is "crap food" is for the public to decide. Obviously, the public likes this "crap food", so what's wrong with McDs making a profit?

: : : But as long as they give a token amount to charity, they can do whatever they like.

: : A token amount?!?!? Charity is one of thier main things, it's not a "token amount".

: All things considered, yes it is.

So what wouldn't be a token amount?

: Frankly, I am tired of capitalist attempts to justify exploitation, environmental damage, etc., through diffusion of responsibility. Anything, ANYTHING, can be justified in this manner, even the slaughter of millions of Jews.

How does one justify that? BTW, that was fascism, not capitalism.

: From McDonald's point of view (and apparently yours too, not to imply that you share a brain), they do no wrong, they simply pay suppliers, advertise, employ, sell crap, etc.

I concur.

:From the suppliers point of view, they do no wrong, only what they are paid.

As I have said before, there is no way to solve this problem. Perhaps if we could privatize the regulation so there would be no conflict of interest.

:Poeple who buy the food do no wrong, they only buy a product made available to them, thereby supporting a massive oppresive multi-national (and they do it after having seen hundreds of hours of McD's ads).

How are they "oppresive"? To the extent of my knowledge they haven't killed anyone. What's wrong with them advertising? I can tell you that when i go there it has nothing to do with seeing ads, I just like the fries:-).

:The workers do no wrong, there just working a job, something everyone's expected to do, at least during Republican administrations.

You don't think everyone should have to work?! Society would fall apart, under any system.

:In effect, no one person is doing anything wrong, it is THE SYSTEM AS A WHOLE committing the crimes.

I think the only ones commiting the crimes are the people that raise the cattle.

: This is one of the numerous reasons people get so incredibly irate when they hear criticisms of capitalism, or any other system they happen to belong to. They truly are doing no wrong (usually), there are very few "bad guys." Just look at the posts by franchisee owners. While everyone is flaming everyone else, the big picture is lost. It is the WAY the system is set up. Unfortunately, class-stuggle, environmental damage, violence, war, imperialism (tell me that's not still going on, I dare you), oppression of the inherently weak,

Who that is oppressed is inherently weak? Come to think of it, who's oppressed?

:cruelty, yadayadayada, are inherent to the basic underpinning of capitalism, especially the global capitalism we have today.

What you have described is New Deal Socialism/Statism. Switzerland is probably one of the last capitalist countries in the world(though not totally capitalist), and they have pure democracy, no oppression, incredible wealth, a pristine environment, nothing for a military, have never been involved in a war, are on the whole non-violent, has very even distribution of wealth and one of the highest mean LEs in the world. That's not what you described, is it?

BTW, capitalism is not global, even if you define capitalism as relaxed socialist statism.

: BTW, nobody is "used to" living in holes dug from human filth.

Huh? Anywhere that that happens is the direct result of imperialism and forced industrialization by the west. Former colonies that are breeding grounds for exploitation. Note that none of the former and current imperialists are/were capitalist.

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