- McJobs and Workers -

Not seeing any other avenues

Posted by: Quincunx ( IWW ) on October 13, 1998 at 19:47:09:

In Reply to: no other recourse posted by BKBandit on October 11, 1998 at 14:25:00:

BK Bandit: Lets start with the message subject:

Qx: OK. Go ahead.

BKBandit: To say one enjoys their job, be it Fast Food service, or Testing Video Games, I have a hard time believing to be a delusion. However, if it is, I'd have to say it's a pretty healthy one. There are plenty of people who despise their jobs, and live miserable lives because of it. Now, if we're to be responsible, and work because that is the way of life, I don't see a problem with even making ourselves believe we enjoy it. These are the things that make life livable.

Qx: Of course this has happened in totalitarian societies to a great extent and many a concentration camp guard enjoyed the delusional mindset that "the Jews deserved it." That's an extreme example but if one pushes the maximization of efficiency to the limit what one gets is a need to use various forms of psychological manipulation to achieve the set goals and with a compliant crew at that.

One way of doing that is to cultivate an "in-group" of employees that can be counted upon to apply peer pressure to other workers in the hope of achieving that "maximum efficincy". It's a basic tenet of industrial psychology and it has imlications that go far beyond any workplace. For another example just do some research on the Five Year Plans of Stalin and see how propagandists in the ex-USSR whipped up public enthusiasm for gargantuan and irrational super-projects that wound up costing the lives of millions. Is that healthy?

If you saw a mirage in the desert it may symbolize hope but should you enjoy it knowing that it is a mirage or should you understand that mirages are not realistic in the least? I would prefer the latter.

BKBandit: And what of those who simply become accustomed to their job and surroundings? For them, it is more desirable to stay where they are then change. And if the current situation is in no way unsatisfying? Why change?

Qx: I think that was a key element in the argumants used by pro-slavery advocates a century and a half ago. You may not realize that but then a plantation can be pretty big.

: : J: Qx im wondering if you even have a job...probably not.

: : Qx: You're assuming again so I'm not really surprised that you want to get into my personal affairs also.

BKBandit: First of all, she was not assuming, she was wondering.. Assumptions can coincide with opinion, and as such a big fan of "Free Speech" as you claim to be, I would think opinions would be welcome.

Qx: Actually, I think that her question is very rude and presumptuous. If she wants to know then she can leave it to her little ol' chat forum participants. It's also very irrelevent and as for your re-definition of her assumption as as "wondering" I will have to agree with a member of another discussion forum in which she states that "corporations increasingly utilize and encourage their brightest people to trivialize, marginalize and dfisparage the arguments of activists in oder to furhter their aims." I'm beginning to understand her angle. Of course, you'll claim that you posted out of "personal interest" or some other line.

BKBandit: As for your personal life, the only question asked was Do you have a job? Which is relevant to your motives,

Qx: First of all, you have a lot to learn about when it comes to motives here. What a question like that implies is that anybody's concern with the harm that multinational corporations do to society has to be relevant (in causal terms) to their job. That's silly.

BKBandit: and therefore relevant to your point.

Qx: Actually, it's very irrelevent because you seem to be claiming the mantle of "rationality" in this debate while defending the of practices of the fastfood industry which is itself veru "irrational". What you should do is try to cobble together an argument that reconciles the irrationality of the fastfood industry with the Western worship of Reason in its corporatist form. Can you do it?
: : J: If you did have a job you would stop harranguing McDWorker for enjoying his job.

: : Qx: You're assuming some more and this time not verty critically at that. I'm very much in doubt of his sincerity. Especially when he gets more hysterical with each new posting.

BKBandit: This is the first actual point I have seen you make besides simply flaming people.

Qx: Actually, you could have been selectively reading for your own purposes of self-promotion. You should read all of my postings.

BKBandit: But I submit it would have been less destructive to simply make that point without the derrogitory comments.

Qx: Look here. You type about "destructiveness" within the context of an Internet debate and the real, material destructiveness is what is happening in society and the environment. What is more important? Trying to use "Logic" and "Reason" for the sake of politeness or for the sake of protecting property? Either way it excludes any recognition of the need for balance.
: : J: Not all of us are depressed miserable people who hate to work.

: : Qx: Some actually like the delusional and insidious notion that management and workers have common interests.

BKBandit: Now, we have a debate. I happen to be a worker who has common interests as the management.

Qx: Good. You could be called a scissorbill but you called hardly be called trustworthy or solid.

BKBandit: This is not delusional, or engratiating myself to my superiors.

Qx: Of course it's delusional and purposefully ingratiating. As I said before. You have a lot to learn about motives.

BKBandit: This is me knowing how and why the world works.

Qx: A lot of other people would see it as your personal, subjective perceptions. Remember that personal observation isn't neccessarily global fact.

BKBandit: It is therefore concevable for me to accept what management does,

Qx: It's more than just "conceivable". It's already happened.

BKB: and their goals,

Qx: If you are psychic you may have an advantage over the ordinary person but you're claiming to perceive a corporate agenda. You could furnish us with a prospectus sometime and provide evidence of knowing "their goals."

: : J: If you ask many of my employees they will say that they like their job. A few others will admit they don't like the job but they do good work and come in to work everyday cause they need the money.

: : Qx: And maybe some of them might just want to organize a union right where you work.

BKBandit: I will agree that there will always be the "unsatisfied population". But this is due to the diversity of man, not through some error or fault of the company.

Qx: You attribute the existence of an "unsatisfied poulation" to human diversity but exclude any organizational or societal shortcoming? This sounds like something coming from a Maoist who touts the benefits of a new Five Yaer Plan and uses a minimalist reference to the ongoing peasant rebellions.

BKB: No one can please everyone. That is a fact of life.

Qx: Nor should it be that way. It would be a paradise for false capitalists otherwise.

: : J: Maybe you should take yourself on out to the real world and try to get a clue.

: : Qx: Third assumption in one posting. Your postings are getting consistent at erroneous evaluations of others if you think (without knowing those persons) others don't live in the real world. Not to mention glibly obtuse.

BKBandit: You have to admit you gave her no other recourse.

Qx: That's a real mess you spilled here. What she did was resort to insults and ad hominems and you're trying to advocate her nastiness. There's always another avenue but neither one of you seem to want to contemplate it.

BKB: It is not conceavable for a person to hold your opinions, without giving reason why, and expect us to believe that you are experienced in the ways of life. Any reasonable person, (In my humble opinion of course) can see the reasons behind our submissions. So now I ask the reasons behind yours.

Qx: Uh...not too good here. For starts there's a website to check out. For seonds you may want to check out my postings but if don't then that's too bad.

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