Day 111 - 30 Mar 95 - Page 17
1 rather than the bacteria itself and this is where we enter
2 a very difficult ----.
3
4 Q. Those toxins are not destroyed by cooking?
5 A. No, not necessarily, no. Both clostridia and
6 staphylococci that produce toxins produce heat labile and
7 heath stabile toxins and I would have to do some more
8 research work on that if I wanted to find out. But toxins
9 are very well-known to cause food poisoning as well not
10 just the bacteria.
11
12 Q. I am just trying to get a picture now relating this to the
13 meat that will be going passed you at Jarretts. What level
14 of contamination with pathogenic organisms would be normal
15 in any of the red meat that was passing by you and what
16 would be only present in there were bad practices or
17 maybe -- do you see what I am trying to say? How does this
18 relate to meat going passed you say at Jarretts?
19 A. Like I said before there is a risk of this type of
20 contamination from pathogenic organisms from the gut of
21 animals and it is a considerable risk at an abattoir where
22 the animals are eviscerated and more and fairly often
23 either the oesophagus of the animal bursts during the -- it
24 is normally tied and most large abattoirs, like Jarretts,
25 they tie the oesophagus and bung the rectum of the animal
26 which is very helpful and does increase the hygiene
27 standards as far as contamination by gut contents is
28 concerned.
29
30 But, fairly often during the slaughter process, the
31 oesophagus bursts open in spite of the fact that it has
32 been tied, or when the eviscerator opens the abdomen, he
33 cuts open one of the stomachs or the small intestine as
34 well. This we call "faecal contamination" and this is
35 usually removed by the inspector, the meat inspector, who
36 works under the OVS, during the inspection process or
37 health and safety, or it is hopefully removed by him if he
38 sees it. That is what we try for.
39
40 Q. What about other sources of faecal contamination? Are
41 there any other, apart from the gut, bursting or during
42 evisceration?
43 A. Well, during evisceration is obviously another ----.
44
45 Q. Is there any time before that when there would be
46 contamination from the live animal whatever ----
47 A. Well, one of the -----
48
49 MR. JUSTICE BELL: Have you got something additional to what we
50 have had before in mind? The reason I say that is this:
51 It is all very well saying: "This is the Defendants'
52 witness on it", but it does not matter who calls the
53 evidence first; there is no justification for a witness
54 called by the other party just saying that which has
55 already gone in evidence and is common ground.
56
57 If you have something additional in mind, leave aside for
58 the moment whether there is motive, point at that -- could
59 you tell me, have you read any of the transcripts of the
60 evidence which has been given? I know you have been in
