Day 233 - 26 03 96 - Page 20
DAY 233
HOWARD LYMAN, Examined:
1 sentences. He talked, he asked, he was told and he
2 believes.
3
4 MR. JUSTICE BELL: Do you want to respond to that now, or do you
5 want the break?
6
7 MR. MORRIS: Yes. Well, for a start, Mr. Lyman clearly knows
8 the industry inside out and upside down; and all of
9 McDonald's witnesses that have appeared, who claim to know
10 about the industry, have been able to comment on matters of
11 practices and what -----
12
13 MR. JUSTICE BELL: That may be in relation to some of it. But
14 what do you say about the parts which, on the face of it,
15 appear to be what someone else has told Mr. Lyman?
16
17 MR. MORRIS: If Mr. Lyman is someone in business and he has been
18 approached by the beef processor, and the beef processor
19 says: "We supply McDonald's restaurant chain", then that is
20 an industry transaction that is being put to Mr. Lyman. It
21 is not -- it is relevant, and it cannot be -- I mean, it
22 may be a matter of weight, but it is not hearsay, or
23 "someone told me this". It is a transaction that has been
24 contemplated; and, therefore, it is significant.
25
26 The next one, the video of the United States senator,
27 "imported meat from Central America", I think that is also
28 a question of weight, because he is not saying -- he is
29 saying -- he is not saying -- he is saying what he saw. It
30 is the fact that he saw this video. What weight you give
31 to that is another matter, but it is clearly describing
32 what he saw and how that related to his experience of the
33 industry as a whole. I have to ask him what the manifest
34 is.
35
36 As far as the Mexican beef imports to the southern states
37 and into Montana, Mr. Lyman said this is something that he
38 actually had inspected or viewed and visited himself in
39 terms of, as he says in the first full paragraph on the
40 second page; and I believe that he should be entitled, as
41 somebody who is clearly an expert on the industry, to
42 gather information when he visits a slaughter plant or a
43 feedlot about the origins of the beef.
44
45 Again, I think that is something which Mr. Rampton could
46 investigate, for Mr. Lyman to test, and it is a matter of
47 weight after that. But he has clearly expressed what he
48 saw and what he understood the situation to be. I wanted
49 to ask him about the type of cattle, as well, that he
50 viewed.
51
52 MS. STEEL: If I could just -- I will not add anything to the
53 point about McDonald's, the first paragraph Mr. Rampton
54 objects to. I agree with what Mr. Morris said. With
55 respect to the other paragraphs, I mean, basically, in this
56 kind of field, all expert knowledge is going to be,
57 obviously, partly from what you witness; but to find out
58 about where things come from and matters such as that, it
59 is all going to be based on what you are told by other
60 people in the industry; and I mean, basically, I think the
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