Day 233 - 26 03 96 - Page 21
DAY 233
HOWARD LYMAN, Examined:
1 situation is that it is because of the way Mr. Lyman has
2 expressed it, it sounds as though it is hearsay, but if we
3 had been lawyers taking a statement from Mr. Lyman we might
4 have encouraged him to express it in a different way which
5 is: "From my knowledge, I am aware that such and such
6 happens", and then it would have been allowed.
7
8 The example about his cousin being a rodeo contractor, and
9 those parts, I am aware that that is just an example of
10 that trade which Mr. Lyman is aware of on a wider basis
11 through his expertise and knowledge of the cattle industry;
12 and, really, that was just put in as an example of that
13 practice.
14
15 I mean, I do not know but, for example, when Dr. Gregory
16 was giving evidence, he said things that had been told to
17 him by the slaughterhouses when he visited them; and
18 I think that is fairly commonplace, for experts to glean
19 information on the industry by talking to the people who
20 are involved in the industry, to build on the knowledge
21 that they already have and to evaluate it; and I think
22 that, basically, that is what this is and, obviously, for
23 that reason, it should be allowed, because it comes within
24 Mr. Lyman's area of expertise.
25
26 MR. JUSTICE BELL: Yes. Thank you. In my view, the words in
27 the third paragraph of Mr. Lyman's statement dated
28 24th February 1996, which run from "who claimed"
29 to "restaurant chain", are clearly hearsay. They cannot be
30 adduced as evidence of the truth of the elements of alleged
31 fact which they contain, and I can see no other purpose in
32 introducing them, whether Mr. Lyman is an expert or not.
33 So, I propose to strike from Mr. Lyman's statement those
34 words, and they should not be read.
35
36 So far as the fifth paragraph is concerned, that is the
37 video tape of a ship, I see no reason why Mr. Lyman should
38 not say what he actually saw on the film, just as one could
39 look at a photograph to see what that portrays. But in so
40 far as anything which appears in that paragraph comes from
41 what he heard someone speaking on the film say or some
42 subtitle, that, again, would be hearsay and would not be
43 admissible. But I am prepared to wait and see about that.
44
45 The part which it seems to me is most susceptible to being
46 hearsay are the words "viewing imported meat from
47 Central America" because it appears to me that that may
48 come from something which was said on the film; whereas
49 saying that there was no label on the boxes which appear in
50 the film would more obviously be discernible from seeing
51 the photographic image of the boxes themselves. But I will
52 wait and see about that, and if some hearsay slips in
53 because it is unavoidable, then so be it.
54
55 When we come to Mr. Lyman's cousin, at the bottom of the
56 page, at the moment I see no objection to the third
57 sentence, "My cousin is a rodeo contractor" down to "for
58 use in American rodeos", because that may come from
59 Mr. Lyman's extensive experience of what he has observed so
60 far as his cousin's business is concerned, rather than
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