Day 233 - 26 03 96 - Page 42

 
 

                                                                  DAY 233
 
 
 
 
 
     1        taking cattle from, as Mr. Cesca indicated, a wide area.
     2
     3        So, obviously, the solution would be to have the list of
     4        ranches.  In any case, Mr. Cesca said that the yellow
     5        flashes were only a third, so far as he could see, of the
     6        collection points; and I took that from my notes.
     7        I already argued it, so I will not argue that again.
     8
     9        I just think that it is very simple matter, really.  If the
    10        Plaintiffs have in their possession, power or control, or
    11        ever did have, as is clear they have had in the past, maps
    12        of ranches, and they are clearly relying upon that kind of
    13        information, then it should be available to us as well as
    14        to them.  That is all, really.
    15
    16   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  Yes.
    17
    18   MS. STEEL:   Can I just say, so that people can check if they
    19        want to, the point where Mr. Cesca changed his mind was on
    20        day 221, which was 26th February.  On page 32, Mr. Morris
    21        was actually asking about Costa Rica, and then he
    22        said: "Some of the live cattle we have seen in Brazil were
    23        transported a couple of hundred kilometres to a collection
    24        point which was in itself", and then he is interrupted by
    25        Mr. Rampton, who says:  "I do not believe that is the
    26        evidence", and then you say, "I think it was, actually.
    27        There may have been a misunderstanding about it."
    28        Mr. Rampton says:  "I think there is a misunderstanding."
    29        It carries on; and, anyway, it is only after all of that
    30        that -- well, the point is that it was not something that
    31        Mr. Cesca brought up of his own accord; it was after
    32        Mr. Rampton's intervention; and he had not corrected it,
    33        despite the fact that he had corrected other things that he
    34        had said in his evidence on previous days.
    35
    36        Mr. Rampton, during the argument on Friday, 8th March, said
    37        that he was willing to ask Mr. Morganti to tell us where
    38        the other areas are, the collection points for Goias -- and
    39        I think it was some other areas as well.  But I want to
    40        make the point that it is a lot easier if they just provide
    41        the list than asking Mr. Morganti to do a new statement;
    42        and I do not really see why they are so resistant to
    43        providing the list if they are willing to give the
    44        information in a statement anyway.  Presumably -- well, so
    45        far as I can see, the only reason why it might be that they
    46        would rather give it in a statement than a list is because
    47        they can leave parts out and make it ambiguous.  Otherwise,
    48        you know, why go to the trouble of getting a statement
    49        prepared, when you a have a list to hand and ready?
    50 
    51        I do not think that right now -- although I just want to 
    52        check something; perhaps I can do that whilst Mr. Morris is 
    53        making some points -- I do not think I have got anything
    54        else.
    55
    56   MR. MORRIS:  Just to finish off the other point, which is the
    57        World Wildlife Fund dispute.  I think the Plaintiffs were
    58        going to check that file which they had in their
    59        Corporation's headquarters in Oakbrook, relating to the
    60        World Wildlife Fund dispute.
 
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