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     1        from the Defendants.  You can express any argument you like
     2        to me, in due course, about the fact that you say this was
     3        admitted.  Then you may allege it was then retracted or
     4        whatever, but put that all aside as a matter for argument
     5        in due course.  Assume that there has not been any
     6        admission in relation to causation or risk of heart disease
     7        and then decide which of your witnesses you would like to
     8        call in relation to that.  Either witnesses which you did
     9        not call because you say you considered there was an
    10        admission in that respect.  Or witnesses whom you have
    11        called, but did not go into heart disease on.  Quite
    12        frankly, I would not have thought that it involves the
    13        calling of a lot more evidence because you can address me
    14        on the matter at any stage in the future, but I would have
    15        thought that is your first step.
    16
    17   MR. MORRIS:   Is there not any -- I mean I do not really know.
    18        We do need to sit down and think about the effect of the
    19        judgment and the matters relating to the admission -- but
    20        is there no kind of legal thing about if you make an
    21        admission?  You know, it has to stand and you cannot change
    22        your mind halfway through?
    23
    24   MR. RAMPTON:  I have not changed my mind.  The admission does
    25        still stand.  It is admitted there is a association or
    26        evidence of association, and it is admitted that it is
    27        causal in nature.  If I have said it once, I have said it
    28        half a dozen times.  I said it in my skeleton argument in
    29        the Court of Appeal.  I was not called on, so I did not
    30        actually say it to their Lordships.  It is and has been
    31        admitted ever since the argument on the application by us
    32        for leave to amend, if not before, that the association is
    33        causal in nature.
    34
    35        What has not been admitted, because it has never been
    36        pleaded, is what the degree of risk is, which is a separate
    37        question.
    38
    39   MR. MORRIS:  I do not know because we have not got the Court of
    40        Appeal's judgment.  The point was that the Court of Appeal
    41        recognised that there was an issue over the effect of the
    42        admissions which was a matter for this court to deal with
    43        and we are waiting for that judgment so that we can bring
    44        it back to this court.
    45
    46   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  Have you ordered a transcript?
    47
    48   MS. STEEL:   We were told something about they would take, I
    49        cannot remember, I think they said 3 weeks.
    50 
    51   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  You have actually ordered a transcript? 
    52 
    53   MS. STEEL:   We asked.  We have not formally ordered it.
    54
    55   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  You will not be sent one as a matter of
    56        course.
    57
    58   MS. STEEL:   We will not?  No,  we have not formally ordered
    59        one.  We did speak to somebody with about it when the court
    60        ordered and they said about 3 weeks.
 
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