- McSpotlight -

Onwards Christian soldier?

Posted by: Mike on September 02, 1998 at 20:53:20:

In Reply to: Predictably right! posted by Stuart Gort on September 02, 1998 at 10:09:25:

: You did it again Mike. We are not talking about beating animals. We
: are talking about eating them. Your mind is hard wired to overstate
: your point so as to generate an emotionally charged support base. You
: can't simply argue a point without using these offensive tactics.

Stuart, if I slit your throat and ate you, would that not be cruel?
Don't bother answering -- it's a rhetorical question.

: :: With all due respect, Fuck your bible, Stuart. It condones a lot of shit we no longer take for granted, such as slavery.
: :: Jesus, being compassionate, would be in the front lines against factory farming.

: We couldn't measure your due respect with a micrometer Mike. If my
: Bible and my God is not where you place your trust why did you then,
: in your next breath, try to use your vision of Christ to support your
: premise?

Christ's sermons are wonderful; the bible itself is filled with man-generated shit.

: :: I don't call taking a stand against cruelty to animals a mere lifestyle preference. I will fight against cruetly to animals, even if other people are happy to incorporate it into their lifestyles.

: Are you characterizing eating them as cruelty? If you are then the group you : fight(?) gets a lot bigger than the group of those people who really
: are cruel to animals. You're going to get beat up trying to fight all meat eaters.

Yes, killing an animal unnecessarily is cruel. You can be a vegetarian, so why kill them? Add to that factory farming, and your case is lost, Stu.

: :: My moral basis is based on my personal view of what's right and wrong.

: There are lots of twisted views of right and wrong in this world.
: Why is yours right? This is all I wish to know.

Ultimately, you must decide that for yourself Stuart. If you don't think I'm right when I say that people should not be cruel to animals, then any further discussion is pointless.

: :: Cruelty to animals is wrong.

: We agree if merely eating them is not cruel in your thinking.

For them to reach your plate, Stuart, suffering and slaughter must take place. That to me is cruel.

: :: Fortunately, this is a widely-held view,

: I think our definitions of the word "wide" widely vary.

Betcha most people think we should be kind to animals.

: :: and if put into practice, factory farms would shut down now.

: It's not put into practice because yours is a miniscule percentage
: of the population.

No, Stuart. If factory farms had glass walls, people would demand that they cease.

: :: Is my morality wrong because it doesn't flow from God? How do you
: know it doesn't? Do you presume to know the mind of God? You can't
: prove diddly squat with God, Stuart, so leave the Big Unknown out of it.

: What have you proven by claiming a moral superiority based on your
: opinions Mike? Arrogance perhaps? The God of the Bible is the one
: true God and a part of His mind is revealed in His Bible.

Spoken like a true believer, though I think true believers of all the other one, true Gods would disagree with you.

: : Actually, Stuart, there's a tremendous difference in a court of law between words and actions, but leaving that aside, first, try to see if for once you can post a message without using the word "rhetoric;" it's as cheap a way of demeaning your opponent's argument as simply calling it PC, and it can be thrown right back in your face. I do not know how many sins it takes to make a man a bad man -- do you?

: One.

Okay, I guess you're right: Stuart Gort is a bad person.

: :: Wrong again. A judge looks at mens rea, or criminal intent, in sentencing defendants. Did that man mean to kill that other man when he hit him with a brick, or merely to wound him, or was it an accident, or was it in self-defense, or was in done in the heat of passion, or in cold blood, etc.

: So this relates back to my hot dog exactly how? Am I ever going to
: end up immoral by your standard? How is it that you call the act
: immoral but find it difficult to judge the man for the act? How many
: hot dogs may I eat and still be your buddy Mike.

You don't need to eat any hot dogs at all, Stuart...

: :::...I am ignorant of a superior morality and continue with an immoral practice oblivious to a better way (Mike's way).

: : Insults again, coupled with obtuseness.

: You are claiming a moral superiority to me - are you not?

That's for you to decide.

: : Well la di da, because the majority believes it, and because it's always been done that way, how can it be wrong? I won't insult your intelligence by citing all the exceptions to that statement...at least, I hope you can answer that one yourself.
: All I am saying is that if you do not accept an ecclesiastical god
: as a basis of your morality then you must accept the majority opinion
: of right and wrong because that is what will wind up legal or illegal.
: If you have a personal opinion on the matter and attempt to shape other
: people's opinions, then you have altered popular opinion. You cannot
: call that morality, however. Morality never changes because it comes
: from God - who never changes.

Really? So you know the true nature of God? I'm impressed.

: : Terrible animal suffering is THE truth behind your meat, Stuart. Can you live with that? Visit a slaughterhouse, as I have, and then answer this question.

: It's not that big a deal to me Mike. I've hunted and fished enough
: to have caused suffering to animals. I've seen blood and caused it to
: flow. That has no effect on me so powerful as hearing that this is
: immoral from someone considering himself above me. Examine your dogma
: Mike. Stop being offensive.

Now the truth comes out. Stuart Gort kills animals for pleasure. Oh, silly me, I thought I was dealing with a rational person.

: : Look closely at that piece of flesh on the end of your fork, Stuart, and really think about how it got there.

: As if I hadn't done so until you said to. I might have killed it
: myself. I wonder if you ever did that. You come off yourself as
: someone who suddenly discovered how meat was made. This is juvenille.

Is not!

: : I must really have gotten under your skin, Stuart, since you're so damned defensive. Maybe there's hope for you yet.

: Don't hold your breath.

I was being generous, Stuart. There's no hope for you.

: : "Man is the only animal who blushes, or needs to." -- Mark Twain

: And He ends with the only Twain quote I remember having reservations about. Man is not an animal.

Stuart Gort: vegetable or mineral?

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