- Capitalism and Alternatives -

'Make this country ungovernable', but steer clear of terrorism

Posted by: Nikhil Jaikumar ( DSA, MA, USA ) on November 15, 1999 at 18:32:46:

In Reply to: A stat for Nik. posted by Stuart Gort on November 15, 1999 at 11:32:18:

: There still is a Peace and Freedom party, Nik. Same as in 1968 when it formed to provide peaceniks with a protest vote to the Nixon/Humphrey choice. But try not to excite anyone here, Nik. The only success this progressive party has ever acheived (32 years from conception) is to actually garner enough votes to stay on the ballot for the next election. You want to place hope in that? At least they keep up with the Monster Raving Loony Party, which appears from my perspective as the most suitable British counterpart.

I believe I am what you would call a 'peacenik'. In that I would have bneen opposed to almsot all Americamn interventions sinnce the '60s, with teh exception of a couple in recent years. There is something called a 'just war', but Vietnam wasn't it, nor was Central America.

: :: The party leader issued a directive. "Each of you," he said, "Take someone you knwo and devote this year to showing him why socialism is the best alternative."

: Show him how? Do we get to visit Sweden again?

You get to read about Nicaragua, or Kerala, or....I've alreday recxietd the list ad naumseam. The information is out there. Or just talk to soemoen form teh Thrid World about the fruits of capitalism.

: :: Obviously, not everyone fulfilled teh directive. But it began to have effects. No mroe than 25% of the party members had the time to do this. But by the next year, these 25% had each converted someone to the way.
: :: Workers converted their coworkers and soemtimes even their bosses. Priests convinced drug addicts off the streets. Motehrs convinced their teenage kids. Students convinced their best friends. Soldiers convinced tehir commanders. Grape pickers converted everyone on teh farm.
: :: And by the end of teh year there were 25% more socialists.
: : But it didn't stop there. A quuarter of tehse new converts took the time to convince THEIR friends, neighbors and coworkers of the value of communism.

: :: This continued year after year, growing according to teh law of exponential growth. In a mere 10 years, 23% of the California vote went to Peace and Freedom!

: Ah, compound interest! Funny how the concept is encouraged in the dreamworld of progressives but is repudiated as a hard fact/benefit of the reality of capitalism.


If you're talking about that example of playing the stock market that you brought up, that wa sutterly irrelevant. Where does that money coem from? It's paper money, fake mnoney, unless it has concrete goods produced to back it up. Are yous eriously denying that if no one worked anbd spent all their time playing the stock market, the country would simply cease to function? Who would produce anything? Giev me a break!

: :: And because the members were committed and devoted, as oppsed to so many other politicians, tehri representatives got measures passed and formed a powerful bloc in the state legislature. at teh same time, strikes and rallies launched by teh party increasingly made teh state ungovernable. At long alst, teh Peace and Freedom party went to teh people of California.

: So victory is achieved by disruption rather than legitimate debate in the arena of ideas? Some ideal you have there, Nik! This does not reveal a truly altruistic or egalitarian nature.

An unjust system may rightfully be dealth with by dsiruption. That was the message of Gadnhi and of many otehr since him. Out of deference to the tradition of Gandhi and his allies in trhowing out the British colonialists, India today recognizes the right to shut down an entire city in order to hold a protest. Thsi happened a couple years ago in Mumbai [Bombay]. A statue of Ambedkar, the social democratic leader of the Dalits {formerly 'untouchables'} was defaced by an unknown vandal. In protest, the Dalit party enforced a citywide shutdown. Everything except hospitals and other absolute essentials was declared closed. People were not able to drive in the streets or go to work; if they did they were harassed. This right is explicitly rpovdied in Idnain law, as a form of free speech. As it should be. They made a strong point come across that such an offense to Dalit sensibilites cannot be allowed. No demand for 'economic efficiency'
or whatever can override the need for legitimate protest.

Incidentally, may I remind you that strikes and rallies are explicitly provdied for in American law. or woudl you like us to become more like El Salvador?

: :: 'This is teh fruits that teh capitalist system has brought you". they said.
: :: And teh people believed them.
: :: That year tehir vote share increased to 30%. They beat the Reublicans, teh democrats, and teh reform Party. And they were masters of America's biggest state at last.

: Expect that if a party resorts to guerilla tactics to obtain power they will be ousted at the first opportunity thereafter unless Barry is right.

Nonsense. I don't believe the ANC, the guerilla movement that invented teh phrase 'Make this country ungovernable' have been voted out. Nor have the CPI (M) in Kolkata (formerly Calcutta.) Nor were teh Sadninistas in 1984. Nor was Allende. Your staetment ahs absolutely no factual basis.

: Then they will solidify power unto themselves by legislation and general corruption.

: What ennobles the proletariet?

"God has a preferential option for the poor". I don't know who said thsi, but it was liberation theologian.


"Whatever you did for teh least of my brothers, you did for me." (Matthew 26:40)

: ::Just a fable....but we can hope.

: Hope for your chance to demonstrate human nature - go ahead. But if you advocate disruption and mayhem to accomplish your goals

I advocate the constitutional right to engage in civi;l disobedience and active protest. I advocate active resistance against an unjust system. I regard anything less as a capitulation to evil forces.

: and you will relegate yourself to the rank of the malcontent - at least in this highly successful capitalist society.

Highly usccessful at what? 840 million people are malnourished. Countless millions don't ahev health acre. Inequality si growing by the day. Successful???!!!

:You are an emminently capable young man Mr. Jaikumar. Your desire to compile and reference information in support of your ideals dwarfs mine. I try to process the world as it comes to me as rationally as possible without relying too much on the colorations of other perceptions. This causes me to constantly question those things I acknowledge and identify as belief. At some point you may identify and acknowledge your own programming. This will be the day you begin to use your talents for something productive.

: Stuart Gort

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