- Capitalism and Alternatives -

What about the Civil Rights movement?

Posted by: Nikhil Jaikumar ( DSA, MA, USA ) on November 17, 1999 at 14:55:58:

In Reply to: Uruguay, for Nick posted by Dr. Cruel on November 17, 1999 at 10:20:34:

: Thanks for the interest in my opinion.

It was more because I though (hoped?) your opinion might change in the light of this information.

: Iíve seen a great deal of this sort of thing in regards to Russia (pre 1990ís), Vietnam, Nicaragua, Cuba, and so forth. The guerrillas (Vietcong, Sandanistas, etc.) always dealt out judicial punishments; they were just a bunch of freedom loving folk, fighting for their rights.

Indeed. You can count on me to defend the Sandinistas without exception and without fail. That they were the most democratic, most humane and best government ever to grace the Western Hemisphere has manifested itself by mounatins of evidence. I have no reason to criticize them in any regard.

: The government, of course, was always quite villainous. When disquieting rumors would surface about these "freedom-lovers", it would be swept up under the Big Red Rug.

That's not ALWAYS, true, of course, but it seems true as a general principle, a good guide to action. Reagan's US lied about Nicaragua, El Salvador, Guatemala, Chile, Grenada, Cuba, the UN, Zimbabwe, South Africa, Namibia, Angola, and almsot every other issue I can think off. so when he makes a randoom statement, what am I to believe? Perhaps he is telling the truth; but on the basis of previous evidence, I think it's safer to assume he's lying. If you don't believe thatReagan lied about Southern Africa, check my posting of some montsh ago.. In the late '70s Reagan explicitlystates that the liberation movements of Southern Africa (ZANU, SWAPO, and teh ANC)had 'no popular support' and were 'terrorists who were the enemy of tehir people'. Unfortunately fro him,a s soona s freedom came to thee countries these parties were elected by overwhelming majorities. They continue to be in charge of their countries today, each of which remains a liberal democracy. Witha record like taht, is it any wonder I regard Reagan as a congenital liar?

:Anything negative about the government, here or there, was the gospel truth by default. So we thus had the hedging of Chomsky, and the boat people, and other non-events. And so on.

See above. Also, in reference to the boat peope, while their plight was ceratinly tragic, more refugees fled the US after the American Revolution 9as a % of population) then fled Vietnam. the Vietnamese revolution was also significantly more popular among the people than teh America. That should put these events in perspective.

: Some pertinent points I take from this particular missive (which we can safely assume is fairly biased):

Biased? Indeed? I suppose that when conervative sources tell a baldfaced lie (e.g. 'Nicaragua was a one-party state', 'SWAPO does not have the backing of the people' they suddenly beci=ome truth? For someone who claims to admire the reactionary Orwell, that's quite an admission. We may bring our predispositions and coloring opinions to the facts when we state them, but at least we don't tell baldfaced lies, like typical conservative members of the US government do as a way of life.

: 1) Dan Mitrione (whoever he was) apparently acted effectively to stifle the activities of the Tupamoros (the "good guys").

Indeed. I'm glad you could tell who were the good guys in that article.

:This peaceful group, after holding this public official for five days (in a nice way), tired of the fellow. His dead body was subsequently dumped off in a stolen car. One would assume this was done in a friendly, publicity causing manner.

Mr. Mitrione was an evil man, a proven murderer of helpless people. He was punished for his crimes. In the US, he would probably get the electric chair. Same in uruguay.

: 2) The CIA is the only source in which thin copper wire might be had in Uruguay. Apparently, a trip to Montevideo would be too much trouble. Diplomatic pouches are used for these "transactions".

: 3) The only reason that the Uruguayan police would need to learn about the manufacture of bombs is to make them. Apparently, the Leftists and anarchists that peruse tomes such as The Anarchist's Cookbook (I have heard that this too is a CIA publication) do so for purely academic reasons. The bomb making/throwing tradition of radicals is, of course, left undiscussed.

See teh evdience provided that teh police killed more people than teh Tupamaros ever did. of course, thsi is not unusual. In Guatemala, the right-wing government killed 23 times as many people as the rebels. Same in Colombia, in Nicaragua, in Chile, in El Salvador- almsot everywhere, in fact.

: In any case, they werenít policemen at all, but members of right-wing death squads.

: 4) The unfortunate Mr. Mitrione apparently was in the habit of torturing itinerants. We have the word of a Tupamoro sympathizer and Cuban spy for this bit of data (one Manuel Hevia).

I am far more liekly to believe a Cuban agent than the word of some reactionary businessman or conservative official in America on thsi issue, especially since many American analysts back it up. manuel Hevia was teh hero of that story, by the way.

: 5) The idea that Latin American student leftists were in any way connected with Soviet (or KGB) funding or involvement is government propaganda. Any documentation to this effect can safely be assumed to be forged.

So if they WERE connected with teh Soviets, is that an excuse to crack down on them, or to automatically declare tehir cause unjust? that's ridiculous. teh Spoviets were in favor of teh Civil Rights movement, does that make it immoral? Your statement is literally Machiavellian in teh worst way.

: 6) Monitoring of said non-existant and/or harmless communist activity is no more than a "juvenile reflex".

No, it's more than that, it's evil repression; it's preventing people from freedom of though, from choosing the type of government and economy they want, from leading a fulfilling and adequate life. I can't think of anything more evil.

: 7) Calling the police to rid your lawn of "revolutionary" campers is an act of police harrassment.

They were political refugees fleeing for tehir lives. it's surprising to see you defending teh Czechs of all people.

: 8) Whatever was said by the only person I know from Uraguay (a friend of my brotherís), claiming that Montevideo is a fairly nice place to live, was obviously tainted by that all-prevalent bourgeouis bias. Unless, of course, the Tupamoros managed to make some sort of brilliant comeback, which the above article implies was not the case.

Yes. teh Tupamaros are right now in the Broad Front coailition with teh Trotskyists, Communists, Socialsits, and Radical Christians. They are suspected to be about to win teh coming election, thank God!

: I donít want to sound ungrateful for this enlightening information. Sometimes, in my quest to be fair and impartial, I occasionally feel the impulse to give Leftists the benefit of the doubt. These little bits from the Philip Agee types always quickly bring me to my senses - to the relief of the entire free world, no doubt.

: Give Mr. Goebbels my regards.

: Dr. "Pigeon" Cruel

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