- Capitalism and Alternatives -

Disagreement = Immorality

Posted by: Stuart Gort ( USA ) on November 23, 1999 at 10:25:16:

In Reply to: Your 'morality' is morally reprehensible posted by Stoller on November 21, 1999 at 23:52:53:

:: Because YOU have been privileged to earn enough to invest in America's bubble economy, you presume that anyone can.

Call work ethic, financial discipline, and prudent investing privileged, Barry. Do it so we can see how low you rate your beloved proletariat. The only thing I count as privilege are my parents and my freedom. My parents raised me with a good set of values and my freedom allowed me to work for my benefit. Barry, your talking with someone who knows how to do it. God bless America!

:: Fact: '71% of households own no shares at all or hold less than $2,000 worth in any form, including mutual funds, 401(k)s, and traditional pensions.' (Business Week, 1 Setember 1997, p. 67.)

Fact: I'm part of the 29% that do. I suggest you work hard and do the same thing. Then you can persuade others that they can take care of themselves instead of abdicating that responsibility to others.

:: Fact: Market returns only 'fatten the wallets of the top quarter of households, which own 82% of all stock.' (Ibid.)

Fact: I'm not in the top quarter so this fact is in question.

:: Fact: 'The right defining statistic for the last two years is the negative savings rate [for average Americans] first recorded in September 1998. Negative savings rates hadn't been seen since 1933.' (New York Times, 18 January 1999, sec. A, p. 17.)
:: Fact: Total household debt is 98% of total disposable annual income. (Business Week, 1 November 1999, p. 40.)

All through the 80's and 90's I had a positive savings rate on meager blue collar wages. Today, I am debt free. How can this be with all your terrible statistics running amok? It could be I was motivated. Part of it could also be that this culture seeks instant gratification and hasn't learned any useful values in government schools.

:::: I'm saying if you went hungry for a while you'd learn to appreciate what is good about a job - any job. You'd be happier to have that job and less inclined to bite the hand that feeds you.

:: So said the prętorian guard to the slaves of the Roman Empire!

I'll assume that bit of sarcasm is the bottom of your barrel and claim the above point.

:::: Tell me what is compassinate about creating an ever growing dependancy class - as is all we have ever seen of socialism.

:: Sure, Stalinism created a bureaucratic elite. But it's income was inconsequential compared to the wealth usurped by the capitalist elite.

Clever slight of hand, Barry but I think you know I refer to socialism as it encroaches upon this country today creating a dependancy class everywhere it raises its foul head. If you wish to bellow about Stalin, be my guest. I like how you suggest that bosses are a dependency class, however - that's cute.

:: For example, Stalinist bureaucrats received only 4 times as much as rank and file Soviet workers. In America, bosses earn up to 200 times that of average American workers.

Curious what happens when you compare statics of the average monthy earnings of Soviet and American workers. Or perhaps we might wish to see which percentage of bosses earn 200 times more than their workers in America vs. what percentage of bosses earned 4 times more than their workers in U.S.S.R. Your stat is but a factoid designed to obfuscate.

:: You attempt to paint socialism as some sort of welfare state. That is PATENTLY UNTRUE.

I guess you don't call welfare, social security, medicare, and medicaid welfare.

:: On the contrary, it is HERE that there are TWO parasitic segments of the population: 1) the reserve army of the proletariat thrown a few table scraps every now and then to purchase their docility; and 2) the capitalist class which monopolizes the means of production but doesn't actually WORK it.

Come out from behind your jargon and fight, Barry. I bought the means of production with my labor. Tell me it isn't mine. Tell me I busted my butt for 15 years and when I bought tooling molds, tables, ovens and raw materials I took an immoral plunge into depravity. Tell me I'm a parasite for investing my labor into my business.

:::: Tell me what is compassionate about convincing people that work which sustains them is not good enough for them.

:: Do you have ANY idea how 18th century that statement sounds?

Yeah? Wait till I start quoting scripture! I seem to remember Marx dying in the late 1800's? Did his presence in the 19th century redeem
us from the woes of the 18th? I'll take your lack of substantive rebuttal as my point won - unless you actually have something to say.

:: Your aristocratic morality is a disgrace.

If you saw my truck you wouldn't say that. No self respecting aristocrat would drive it.

:: If this country was as'great' and as 'wealthy' as you claim it is, then EVERYONE would do some interesting work once in a while---instead of laboring like farm animals.

You think the world owes you interesting work, boy? Keep thinking like that and you'll never have any.

:: Enjoy your cavier and moet while you can.

Hey, this is America! Isn't it wonderful how the average citizen here can afford it?

Stuart Gort

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