- Capitalism and Alternatives -

Sidewalk Dropping Flamenco

Posted by: Frenchy on December 21, 1999 at 11:12:08:

In Reply to: Frenchy: Defending Ignoramuses Everywhere posted by Samuel Day Fassbinder on December 20, 1999 at 18:08:28:

: : :
: : : : $$$$$$$$$$$$Contribute? Or sell? There's a difference. The question is what do those countries do with the money that industrialized countries buy their raw material/finished products with?

: : : SDF: They pay the interest on their IMF/ World Bank loans, of course.

: : $$$$$$$$$Is that the source of the 3rd. world's 'contribution' to the Northern economies totalling six Marshall Plans per decade? The repayment of a loan?
: : Your joking here, aren't you?

: SDF: That's what the nations of the South do with the money they got from selling the nations of the North their stuff -- which includes practically everything you can find in a chain department store today. Go look at the labels on Wal-Mart's clothing display some day, tell us all where it's made. '

So they do sell stuff to the Northern economies to pay off previously agreed to loans.

Then if their able to provide the Northern economies (define that please) with the equivilant of six Marshall Plans per decade, what's the beef? You want they should not repay their loans?

: : : SDF: Frenchy, too blind to see socialism, would rather remain stupid than take advantage of free education leading to a better job. Meanwhile, half of each dollar Frenchy sends the IRS goes to a bloated military establishment, while his attention is diverted.

: : $$$$$$$$$$$$$$Your assuming that everyone would benefit from a free education leading to highly skilled jobs. Where has this occured? In the Soviet Union? In Cuba? Aren't those countries only proof that not everyone has the native ability to do skilled/professional work?

: SDF: Frenchy can imagine proof anywhere he wants; proving something, on the other hand, is a matter for intellectual adults.

Oh, a wound to my heart!
Socialists are always talking bs about the wonderful educational system of Cuba. Where are the accomplishments you'd expect to see?

: : Or even wants to do that sort of work? Or does your interest in this have more to do with being an educator yourself and thereby benefitting from gov't sponsored 'educational' spending? Department of Education delenda est.
: : You'd probably be shocked to learn that only about 17% of total gov't spending goes to defense. The majority of gov't spending goes to 'entitlements'.

: SDF: Frenchy didn't bother to look at my link, where the above assumption was thoroughly debunked. There's really no point wasting time with an explanation, since Frenchy's wilful ignorance will have changed not one whit as a result.
That's right. Your a charlatan.

: : : : : SDF: It CAN'T be worse than the current reality...

: : : : The jobs that Nike provides for the cheap labor in the Third World surpasses anything those nations currently have to offer their citizens.

: : : SDF: Bullshit, Frenchy. You just spout lies without the slightest shred of evidence, then when you're questioned about it you glorify your ignorance ("I don't read links"). Vietnam collaborates with Nike to oppress its girls, and people like you endorse it.

: : $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$This is stupid even for you. Your saying, I guess, that females are better off walking in back of a Water Buffalo planting rice? Sitting around hamlets cutting firewood and having children? Being sold into prostitution (yeah, I know, that's Cambodia, but I've got a strong suspicion that those cultural practices don't stop at an imaginary line in the jungle). First you bitch about elites protecting access to skills and professions, then you bitch because elites open up factories in a jungle somewhere and give some people at least an opportunity to gain a skill.

: SDF: None of these factories offer any position to women besides that offered at the bottom of the corporate ladder -- and their main modus operandi consists of trapping women with false promises and then working them to death. Aihwa Ong's SPIRITS OF RESISTANCE AND CAPITALIST DISCIPLINE offers more details.

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$Yup, a large part of the problem has to do with the culture. That doesn't mean that the idea of free markets are bad. Which reminds me, you haven't commented on my observation of the importance of courts to protect individual rights, intellectual rights, property rights, etc.

: : By our standards the girls who work for Nike are getting a raw deal, but not by their standards. The money they earn they can send back to their families, the same as many Mexican migrant farm workers do here.
: : It's true, I don't read links, but specifically I don't read your links. And don't forget, I haven't read Das Kapital and probably never will.
: : Wait. Make that 'never will'.

: SDF: How 'bout that wilful ignorance!

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ LOL!!!!!!!!!!!$$$$$$$$$$$$$Especially after the shellacking the Communists took in today's elections in Russia. I would expect a shitload of those voters were throughly familiar with Marx's crackpot ideas.

: : : : At any rate isn't it better then simply shipping billions of dollars of American tax-payers money to despotships where the citizens will see no benefits?

: : : SDF: You endorse THAT too, under the banner of a "Reaganesque foreign policy".

: : $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$Well, all things being equal, yeah. I mean, how else are these countries gonna keep supplying the wealthy nations with the equivilant of six Marshall Plans every decade if they have nothing to trade?

: SDF: How else is Frenchy's political hero to tell these countries how to run themselves, so that Frenchy can complain hypocritically that we're all telling people "how to run their lives"?

: :
: : : : : SDF: And, in the future, the world will become increasingly dependent upon its coal reserves, as oil reserves dry up, no thanks to those who think that coal mining is "increasingly out of date".

: : : : $$$$$$$$$$$Then that's what men will do if it becomes necessary, perhaps using robots to work in the mines.

: : : SDF: Using what energy source?

: : $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$I've got no idea, that's not my job. Possibly one that is today unimaginable. Possibly a combination of a new method and an old method. I have a hunch though that whatever the method finally used is, it will come from a country where the free market has expression. At least that's the historical track record, no?

: :
: : : : Hey...maybe McDonalds can roboticize the hamburger flipper jobs to...ahh, progress.

: : : SDF: And Frenchy will celebrate the consequent loss of jobs.

: : $$$$$$$$$$$$$$Ahhh, but won't there be a need for technicians to repair the robots?

: SDF: Not with the people languishing in ignorance per Frenchy's request.

Nice comeback. For you.
By the way, you didn't comment on my slam about teachers benefitting from the Dept. of Edukashun recieveing increased funding, to the benefit of thousands of second and third rate teachers.
Oh well, maybe I cut a little to close to the bone.

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