: : :If anyone had told me 20 years ago how much I'd dislike my gov't I'd've told 'em they were nuts. HA! Look at me now. I'm ready to celebrate Timothy McVeigh Day.
: : Frenchy, I lost colleagues in Oklahoma City. People who had just shown up for work after kissing their spouses and children goodbye for the day. They weren't evil government taskmasters; they were clerks and progam analysts and lawyers and book-keepers and yes, probably some managers. If you were serious about celebrating what McVeigh did, say so now.
: : Government is not the enemy, you know. Government is US, the people. Corrupt politicians are the enemy. Learn the difference.
: I understand exactly who the people were who died in OK city. They were the very same people who died at WACO. In both cases they were all innocent. Same as the people who were murdered at Ruby Ridge by government agents.
Then I assume you're willing to take back that quip about celebrating Timothy McVeigh day.
: You look at me like I'm crazy? Fine. Does that mean you support the US government killing close to a hundred people who did nothing
While I may disagree with you on many issues, I have not yet called you crazy, not do I think you are crazy. Or stupid, for that matter. Let's not confuse political disagreement (admittedly, sometimes to the point of personal insult) with conclusions about each other's mental states, okay?
Now let's talk about Waco and Ruby Ridge. In both cases, I believe the Feds acted stupidly to say the least, and quite possibly criminally.
The Ruby Ridge family was not the nicest group of people around: heavily armed white supremacists, one of whom probably was guilty of dealing illegally in firearms. However, the BATF cowboys confronted the situation in the worst possible way. As for Waco, again you have a heavily armed group, this time mixed with religious extremism - it was, as you must admit, a cult -- but had they wanted to arrest whatshisname, they had plenty of opportunities to do so without creating a seige situation. I don't know if the was child abuse or rape or other abuse going on in that compound, though it wouldn't surprise me given similar situations, e.g., Jonestown, but the Federal response all but guaranteed a violent outcome. I think an investigation should be conducted and those found guilt of criminal actions punished.
I lost the rest of your post, for some reason, so I can't respond further to your points. However, we are in agreement on one thing: we both distrust and dislike our present federal government, though for different reasons. However, I embrace the concept of a democratic government founded upon the U.S. Constitution, and my discontent lies with the dismantling of that wonderful system into what I now see as an undemocratic machine which serves the interests of wealthy individuals and large corporations first, and the common man only as an afterthought.