- Capitalism and Alternatives -

Try again, Ace.

Posted by: Frenchy on January 10, 19100 at 11:09:41:

In Reply to: Dont be sorry, I've just taken your sorry excuse for a post to peaces!!! posted by Lark on December 30, 1999 at 11:09:13:

: : Why Hitler Was a Left-winger; Left as Enemy of Individualism

: Oh, there's no doubt at all that Hitler was an enamy of Individualism, what makes you think that's not a very common thing among right wingers? The left has historically been far more libertarian, if not individualistic.

$$$$$$$$$$LOL! Yeah, tell that to the people who want to leave Cuba.
: : Peikoff then quotes Fichte as saying "(T)he individual life has no real existence...since it has no value of itself,
: : but must and should sink to nothing... (T)he Race alone...ought to be looked upon as really living." Ahh, what a
: : glorious celebration of being you! The Nazi philosophy pursued this belief unfailingly. "They preached authority
: : above rights, the group above the individual, sacrifice above happiness, nihilism above morality, feelings above
: : facts, pliability above absolutes, obedience above logic..."
: : Does the rejection of the individual, the rejection of personal happiness, the rejection of morality, and the
: : rejection of facts and logic sound like behavior coming from the right? Quite the contrary, it sounds like a nutshell
: : summation of all Leftist ideology.

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$Sure, OK, what ever you say, doc. Next you'll be telling me that Kruchev was a registered Republican and that Mao and Stalin were members of the Montana Militia.
You guys, shhhhhheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeesssshhhhhhhhhhhh.

: If you are a politically prejudiced lunatic who will not read left wing accounts first hand and discover what their opinions on individual really are, as opposed to merely inventing spectres like this sod then it's a summation of leftist ideology.

I know good and well what they say. Anybody with a room temperature IQ knows what the lefties say.
It's what they do that gets me.
Keep your eye on the ball, not the pitcher's bubble-gum.

: :
: : As I say, this is only a brief statement from that site. It makes for pretty good reading.
: : Unless you want to remain in your sad state of denial.
: : There's a neat picture of the political spectrum to help you along.

: Really, I find that very hard to believe as the entire thing is nothing more than a bunch of pally prejudiced idiots all discussing AMONGST themselves spectres and bogey men that they have invented themselves and which bear absolutely no similarity what so ever to the theories of leftists in reality.

$$$$$$$$$$$Theory? Oh, yes, that wonderful thing, as one of us right wing 'nuts' has previously pointed out, that has not been demonstrated in any meaningful way. Is this the same as 'castles in the air'? If not, what's the difference.

: As to Hitler, national socialism had it's origins in the ideas of Durhing who was a nationalist and a corporatist who insisted, in a very unsocialist fashion seeing as all actual socialists are opposed to compromise in the Class War, that the class war would fade away because the interests of employer/capitalists could be reconciled in a national framework and national dictatorship. However Durhing could because of his proto-Keynesianism be given socialist status by prejudiced capitalists, was Hitler true to this model?

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$Your gonna have to learn to talk standard English. That's just gobbledy-gook that's meant to inspire awe towards those spouting it, usually a pseudo-intellectual.

: The answer is of course not, not for a moment, Hitler believed slavishly in Competition above all else, the Competition of races, the competition of nations, the competition of dictators, the competiton of individuals in the economy or businesses. While the National Socialists where anti-semites and nationalists their entire ideological status transformed with Hitler as their leader (the ultra submissiveness of followers to leaders in a hierarchical structure and natural elitism is again a right wing phenomena).

$$$$$$$$$$$$$Oh? Really? Competition was a mark of Hitler? Ever hear of the Cold War? There are many of us who would look at that period as a competition between the Left and the Right.
As a matter of fact, there are some people on this very board, who whild denouncing the idea of competition, are in fact competing against others who happen to support a saner world.
Care to guess who I'm talkin' 'bout?

: Is it Socialist to believe in competition? Of course not.


: What evidence have we of this?:

: The Nazi Gregor Strasser remained loyal to the ideology of Durhing, even declaring that 'we are socialists' at nazi gatherings (although the national criteria must again be considered, he hated labour for the racial and national category to which he belonged, labour for racial or national inferiors was not objectionable for him), was executed in one of Hitlers purges against 'Communists with the Nazi party', (indeed Hitler is known to have prefered the terminology of nazism to national socialism because he detested the idea of socialism so much he couldnt bare the name) Punch and other lampons showed cartoons of Strasser and others shot by Hitler and the SA with both hands raised and the caption:

: 'They salute with both hands now'

: Finally if we disregard all this CONCRETE HISTORICAL AND FACTUAL EVIDENCE and remain true to our PREJUDICES we have to ask ourselves how can Hitler be a 'leftist' if he executed all other leftists, made clear a hatred of all leftists and left-wing theory, or how his racially motivated death camps etc. can be reconciled with the idea of complete racial equality etc. that is popular amongst every other socialists from the establishment of socialism as a political ideology?

: The answer is it cant. What we can say is that Hitler was an example of a right wing statist that used the full battery of state power against the individual to enforce his conservative vision of nationalism, racism and nostaligia.

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$Whereas the Communists used their good state power to send individuals to Gulags in Russia, to communes in China, to re-education schools in Viet-Nam, and to the country side in Cambodia to be butchered.
Yes, now I do see the difference.
Thank You.
How could I have overlooked such important differences?

: Anyone who says he's otherwise is engaging in a black propaganda exercise and doesnt want to do any serious, rational and unprejudiced study on the issue at all, hey, that would mean they where exactly like Frenchy.

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$Well, actually, I have company.

: : Wonder if McSpotlight will let this through?

: Nice tolerant people those McSpotters, of course they'd let it through.

Too bad some of my other posts haven't been so lucky. Oh, well.

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