- Capitalism and Alternatives -

are you condemning strikes now?

Posted by: Lark on January 18, 19100 at 14:59:03:

In Reply to: 'Liberty in the workplace' versus job rotation posted by Barry Stoller on January 17, 19100 at 10:41:15:

: The industrialized abundance that modern socialism must be based upon (would the working class overthrow the bourgeoisie for only lower standards of living?)

If we just take this as an example where have all the revolutions been? Agrarian Russia, Agrarian China, Cuba etc. it is all the people with nothing stop this middle class crap about people wont rebel if they havew nothing, if they have nothing they have nothing to lose!!

:requires centralization and labor discipline (as I pointed out here and here).

Discipline? Centralisation? Why dont you turn spin doctor to some corporation and make the capitalists very happy, that is just the same damn dog with a different collar, if I go into work on day two of the revolution and see same boss, same customers etc. it doesnt mean anything has changed because everyone worships the party and calls each other comrade!!

:There's no way an assembly-line---or even a street-paving crew---can permit the anarchist 'ad hocary' of day-to-day individual liberty in the workplace.

Why the fuck not? Sounds like capitalist prejudice or one dimensional thinking to me, sure lets talk up 'absolute equality' and talk up 'absolishing the division of labout' and then just strengthen the division of authority of master and slave, damn it can't you see?!!!
Your making a recipie for all the Russias, all the Gulaks, all the worker murdering regimes!!!

And it's not Ad hocary, for fucks sake, it is trial and error something Marx was 100% in favour of, or did he leave a blue print lying around!!

:If a worker refuses to show up or to do such-and-such a task, production will be hampered, even stopped. That means commodities people expect on the communal store shelves will not be there.

So what are you condemning strikes now? Maybe we should just conform to capitalism to ensure the comfort of all the people going shopping now a days, I hate this, these false revolutionnaries who care for NO PRINCIPLE and just for some FANATICAL violent putsch implementation of some pie in the sky BLUEPRINT, I hope you never, ever suceed, if you do I wont be calling it socialism and I'll blow it to bits!!

: Let's look at individual (read: market) democracy as opposed to majoritarian rule to illustrate the intellectual bankruptcy of 'liberty in the workplace.'

Both of those are completely illegitimate forms of social organisation, if it doesnt promote self-organisation, self-management, individual and collective organisation and individual freedom and voluntary association not society it isnt freedom it is just another version or variety of capitalism, damnit, can't you see?! Why can't you see?! Your attachment to these blueprints and schemes is like some weird cult and the revolution is your bloody apocalypse!!

: Pollution. If one (even one) person wants to pollute, then ALL of society is subjected to pollution. In order to free everyone from pollution, that one polluting person must be stopped (nothing voluntary about that)...

: The same applies to job rotation.

Do not be stupid, if we're all working the same as in capitalism, subject to the same jack booted authority it is just capitalism reborn, can't you see?!!

It doesnt matter about abundance it doesnt matter about any of that if life is made a complete prison complex.

: If one (even one) person wants to do only skilled work, then everyone else must take on the added unskilled work that the one shirker leaves undone... [In order to free people from having to do exclusively unskilled work, skilled work must not be appropriated exclusively.]

So we spread the poison around a bit right, if one is miserable we're all miserable?!! This is insane, it's not freedom it's equal injustice, shared torture and equal share of capitalist social relations for everyone!

: Let us imagine that job rotation is voluntary.

As it is in successful miners co-ops in Britain.

: It's not too much of a stretch to imagine that everyone will choose to play guitar and that no one will choose to maintain sewage (following a real life example from communitarian living at the East Wind intentional community, as reported by Kat Kinkcade in Is It Utopia Yet?): what if everyone wants to play guitar, leaving 'other jobs' to 'someone else'?

This is the same logic as the capitalist. You are a Capitalist, I'm no longer debating with you.

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