- Capitalism and Alternatives -

You are (again)

Posted by: Barry Stoller on February 03, 19100 at 10:53:59:

In Reply to: Who's the dummy here? posted by Samuel Day Fassbinder on February 02, 19100 at 15:42:48:

'Legislation, whether political or civil, never does more than proclaim, express in word, the will of economic relations' (Marx, The Poverty of Philosophy, International n.d., p. 70).

Stoller: And if the Greens put Nader---who won't disclose how much money he earns because 'it's nobody's business'---in the White House, how much will really change?

: They don't plan to.

They don't plan to change anything? What a goal!

: It's a plot to build a political party.

For what purpose? What will any 'new party' who works within the framework of market democracy be able to do?

Let us recall that the freed slaves (male) received the vote shortly after the Civil War. Could they vote themselves a seat at the front of the bus? NO---they had to hit the streets to accomplish that. It's the nature of reform to tail the economic relations ALREADY IN PLACE. Hence the need for a thorough-going revolution.

: Say, didn't Lenin once participate in elections?

Sure, immediately after the dissolution of Tsarist monarchy when people actually thought Parliaments could effect real social change. Kerensky disabused them on that score. Lenin simply wanted the people to learn---from their own experience---that Parliaments can do nothing significant to change social conditions.

Lenin: 'To decide once every few years which member of the ruling class is to repress and crush the people through parliament---this is the real essence of bourgeois parliamentarism, not only in parliamentary-constitutional monarchies, but also in the most democratic republics' ('The State and Revolution,' Collected Works volume 25, Progress Publishers 1964, pp. 422-3).

: Go back to your quest for your perfect cult, asshole.

Lowering your debate standards a bit aren't you, Sam? Sounds like working for the Greens has got you pretty frustrated...

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