- Capitalism and Alternatives -

Absolutely Free!

Posted by: Chuck ( Virginia ) on February 11, 19100 at 12:20:06:

In Reply to: Tell me what's a-happening! posted by MDG on February 10, 19100 at 17:09:04:

: : : : I think these liberal locusts can't handle you because you are a damned fine debater.

: : : Funny how everyone who disagrees with Barry is labelled a "liberal" as if 1) That were true, and 2) That was an insult. Liberalism stands for expanding human freedom and reducing human suffering, and protecting the Earth. Horrid stuff!

: : More bumper stickers! I get enough of that on my hour-long commute to and from work. Capitalism was founded on liberal principles so you ain't fooling me with your kinder, gentler capitalism.

: Would you prefer the nastier, harsher kind?

I don't prefer ANY capitalism.

: Moving on: IF liberalism strives to lessen oppression, expand freedom, and protect the environment, why do you oppose it (and please spare me your silly "bumper sticker" rejoinders)?

Because it does not oppose capitalist social relations - it only seeks to smooth them over. Because it speaks in terms of absolutes (e.g. supra-class morals and rights, supra-class states etc.) and because it is the basis for opportunism.

: Secondly, how was capitalism founded on liberal principles? Seems to me it was founded on conservative principles: keeping wealth and power in the hands of the wealthy and powerful.

Does "Liberty, equality, fraternity" ring a bell?

: : : :If they only knew how spoiled they sound when they cry foul.

: : : But Chuckie, we want to be able to disagree with Barrrrryyyyyyyy!

: : Disagree with him all you want - just don't chirp like a locust when he calls you out on your hypocrisy.

: You mean cricket, not locust. Anyway, where is your evidence that my or anyone else's disagreements with Barry are not sincere? Is any disagreement with Marxism (or Trostkyism, or whatever Barry represents) evidence of insincerity to you? If so, why are you even on a debating board? We're here to challenge each other, not march in lockstep.

Once again, it's not that I object to your challenges. It's when you all start calling people "sicko", "freak", "cultist", "fascist" (Oh, sorry - you only COMPARED Barry to fascists) etc. and then cry foul when the tables are turned on you. Personally, I have been on the receiving end of this sort of abuse for many years and, frankly, I'm tired of it. See, you all can call us fascists, sickos etc. and that's somehow o.k. But if we call you petit bourgeois opportunists (i.e. sickos) it's considered way out of bounds. All I'm asking is that you suck it up and roll with the punches.


: : : You don't like the fact that we challenge Frenchy on his support of right-wing dictatorships, or his dismissal of environmental concerns, or his constant reference to conservative writers and their corporate-funded, right-wing think tanks? Are you really Steve Forbes in disguise?

: : Challenge Frenchy all you want. I call that Barry-avoidance behavior.

: Huh? Eh? What? Oh, never mind. I forgot that this is the Barry Stoller board, and we're all here to serve him.

Barry is, in my opinion, the finest debater on this board. Nobody can touch him and that has nothing to do with my political orientation (although, I must admit it's nice to see Barry shoot you all down like clay pigeons). So, in a way, it is the Barry Stoller board.

: Wake up, Chuck, there are plenty of people on this board besides Barry, and they represent different ideologies.

That's not how I see it. With a few exceptions, all I see here is bourgeois ideology dressed up in different garb (e.g. anarchism, liberalism, nationalism, etc.)

: Frenchy, for example, approves of American support of bloody right-wing dictators like Pinochet, or fascist groups like CANF, and I will readily challenge him on that. YOU can limit yourself to worshipping at Barry's feet and nipping at his debaters' ankles, but don't expect the rest of us to follow your example.

Again, challenge Frenchy all you want if it makes you feel good. Just don't expect me to take you seriously.

: : Slinging shit at Frenchy is easy.

: Why do you say that? Because he says atrocious things? Let's ignore him then and maybe he'll go away or spontaneously join the Green Party. Or maybe if left unchallenged, our silence will equal tacit approval, and the next child who visits this board will see only Frenchy's POV and consider it unchallenged, and hence acceptable.

I think Frenchy made up his mind a long time ago (and you ain't changing it) so, by all means, challenge Frenchy for the children's sake if that's your thing.

: :Why don't you debate Barry?

: Looked around lately? We frequently debate. I even agree with him from time to time.

You should debate him more often, that's my opinion.

: :You have run away a couple of times now.

: Damn that bladder o' mine!

: : : :Don't change a thing Barry - all the flak you are getting means you are right on target.

: : : By that logic, Dan Quayle deserves to be President.

: You haven't responded to this yet. Do you really believe that the more someone is criticized, ergo, the more correct he must be? Vote Quayle -- after all, everyone thinks he's a fool, so he MUST be brilliant!

Not so. I was merely complementing Barry's skill at handling all the bullshit that he has to put up with - why can't you understand that?

: : Now don't go getting your locust wings all tied in a knot. If you were a serious liberal you would be debating Barry, not Frenchy.

: I'm a happy-go-lucky humanistic misanthropic vegan leftist-maybe-
: anarchist-maybe socialist-but leaning towards anarchist, and I'll debate whomever I want, whenever I want, you (hmmm, reading footnote below)...thank you very much!

That's just fine MDG. I'm just waiting to take you seriously.

: : McSpotlight: Look, this is personal abuse and contains zero actual debate; this is a debating room; so please do so. Otherwise, future messages will be rejected.

Sorry McSpotlight. I'll try to remember to take my medication.

Follow Ups:

The Debating Room Post a Followup