- Capitalism and Alternatives -


Posted by: Red Deathy ( Socialist Party, UK ) on March 24, 1999 at 15:15:50:

In Reply to: Utter Rubbish posted by noel on March 24, 1999 at 11:10:23:

: Of which you and I are a part.....

As a whole- it must be the immense majority working in teh interests of the immense majority.

: Utter Rubbish-So anti-socialists such as Karl Marx, Rosa Luxemburg, etc...were all wrong hey?

Last I heard niether of those two advocated vanguardism, won't find a single word of it in the Manifesto, your Chris Harman critiscises Rosa Luxemburg for her 'Ultra-Leftism' during the German Revolution, and for her famous 'sponteneism'. Noticeably you don't mention Lev Davidovitch 'The revolution is made by the minority' Trotsky, nor Loony, erm, Lenin- both of whome did hold that view.

: So you ARE attempting to give direction, i.e. a lead so that the struggle goes backwards rather than forwards.....

Arguing and debating with people is very different from unilaterally taking action, burrowing into other people parties (or existing parascitically to them, but without them), taking voer their unions by cliquery. They listen, or they don't, their call.

Its also very different from wanting to seize power as a minority, and make people work (if they are skilled intelectuals and engineers) at gun-point if need be.

: I think it's time to stop being so sectarian and realise that if the most class conscious elements of the working class DONT give a lead then others will.....namely the Right.

I will nto lead, merely proyletize. Down with leaders.

: Do you actually do any activity other than writing on this list, because if you came down to East London I can show you why it's important to give a lead, because if you don't then working class people get killed.

Yes, I work in my local union, actually. Are you referring to ANL activism- bunch of leftist turn up, kick shit out of Nazis' leave the locals to deal with the fallout?

: --
: McSpotlight: ...and, just as things were quieting down in the Catholic vs. Born-again debate, up popped the SWP vs. Non-Heirarchical debate...

Sorry. :(

McSpotlight: Well, this topic does belong here, so please just be as polite as possible when kicking seven shades of crap through each other...

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