- Capitalism and Alternatives -


Posted by: Red Deathy ( Socialist Party, Uk ) on May 06, 1999 at 13:19:02:

In Reply to: disastrous posted by Gee on May 06, 1999 at 11:13:44:

: Duty to whom if not yourself and chosen values?

Exactly, and to make socialism work you must choose a certain set of values.

: So C2 could walk in and take. Infact they could do so without needing to produce for themseves at all. Bye Bye C1, and all who motivated her.

Likewise C1 could walk into C2 and start to improve/use their facilities- freedom of movement between communes necessarilly means this (and freedom of association is a fundamental freedom), because teh communes must not be exclusive, anyone can join, and thus share in the goods, but, as everyone must recognise, they have a need to ensure that production continues so that they ay go on sharing.

: I doubt it, considering the above scenario (takers) is very plausible.

1:People who took without working would be fairly unpopular anyhow.
2;work and the need to contribute would be seen both as a necessary and a natural part of life, if these people want socialism to continue, they must help out, otherwise C1 would just stop working.

: I can see why people individuate then.


: hence socialism doesn come about, except in state nationalist socialism.

No, hence socialism cannot be state nationalist, it must be world-wide and without boundaries- you are trying to put boundaries into the equation, where they cannot be.

: Again, you are saying that it is legitimate for some people to simply live off the produce of others, and that those others do not have the right to protect their produce from them. Exploitation.
: Disastrous.

No, I am saying that everyone, so long as they have contributed to the best of their abilities (and from what you were saying C2 were doing their best, but not as well) then they ahve a right to share in the mutual produce. The people of C2 would need to work lest socialism and the world of free access falls apart. The best sollution all-round is to ask C1 to help them out, and increase their productivity.

Just as much as the members of C1 must co-operate to make it work, and since C1 and C2 are part of the same commmune, the same logic applies. C1 could, perhaps be self sufficient materially, but that would mean cutting themselves off socially from the rest of the world.

Follow Ups:

  • Because Gee si May 06 1999 (2)
    • Aha! Red Deathy Socialist party Uk May 07 1999 (1)

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