- Capitalism and Alternatives -

or is it

Posted by: Gee ( si ) on July 01, 1999 at 17:30:59:

In Reply to: Oh, but it is! posted by Asarulaim on July 01, 1999 at 16:02:07:

: You are very wrong here Gee. The boom-bust cycle is not the result of the Federal Reserve, it is inherent within the nature of capitalism.

There are many myths about the great depression,

: What is profit Gee? Is it teh same as productivity?

An increase in the exchangable value would be a reasonable way of putting it. see my newer discussion with RD

:I can speculate in the Global currency markets, make a killing, and yet contribute nothing to increase productivity or real wealth.

Indeed, that area make me wonder - there is a lot of speculation (!) that speculators are clver followers of central bank activities and are quick to take advantage of a country trying artificially to alter the nations currency value.

: Meanwhile teh government can spend 100s of millions of dollars on roads and other infrastructure and not show a pennyfor it.

Or a private company can (assuming hes 'allowed') make a railroad and make a profit.

: Its called taxes. If you don't pay your taxes you go to jail.

Hmmm, hardly a 'neat' solution to people not wanting to pay is it? Doesnt stop them not wanting to pay - very authoritarian.

: What do we do with losers, physically disabled, mentally incompetent, victims of racism, sexism, etc.; what do we do with the Willy Lomans (Death of a Salesman reference)?

What you do, what I do - dont blame 3rd parties.

:The measure of a society is not just the product of its greatest members, cultural and scientific achievements, but how it treats the worst among us in society.

Thats a qualitative and personal measure, I could say something silly about the measure including how many operas are produced, its a personal measure.

: Some say it takes a village to raise a child, well I ask you what should we do with the village idiot?

What you do, what I do

: There is nothing inherent in the definition of the term "universal" that precludes it from providing quality care.

Or lousy care, thats the point.

: They have provided care to millions of Americans who would otherwise be denied it. That is an achievement in itself.

And it always hard to find stats for those who have been denied good treatment because they were barred (either by law or by heavy taxes) from going private.

: The desire to work and the desire for more net money is very hard to suppress.

Precisely my point, hence they leave to where its achievable. cant just keep taking more then expecting them to work even harder all the time - theyll leave. Dont just keep goin back to the well for more.

:Also, using the argument that companies pay all tax
I used no such arguement.

No, I was using it.

: That is unless the government takes that money and spends it on public goods that inhance our productivity and grow our real economy.

And why do they know better than 'the people' in what enhances productivity?

: Regardless, even if the government simply redisitributes money, there will still be no decrease in economic growth on the macroeconomic level, only a decrease in the reate of groth in the private sector.

Wrong because it assumes that the return on capital invested is just as high for state directed investment as for private investment, which all command economies will attest - it isnt.

: There merely needs to be a democratic consensus. I am a democratic socialist, unlike that scientific socialist dude. Regardless, there doesn't have to be universal agreement, just a simple majority

51% ant it 49% dont - will the 49% just say "ho-hum, never mid" and work just as hard toward the goals they specifically didnt wat? More realistically - 40% want project A, 30% want project B and 30% want project C - project A 'wins' with 60% against it. A majority doesnt 'disapear' the will of the rest.

: Or medicine, or safety technology, or communication, or housing, or foods, or recreations and
entertainment etc etc.

I am glad you see my point here.

I was referring to waht the private market supplies

: Knowledge is the one thing that separates humans from all other animals Gee. To say that knowledge is of questionable value invites stark criticism.

Did I say *all* knowledge, or a focus on some knowledge in place of another? You have misinterpreted.

: We all benefit from basic scientific research in so many ways it is practically impossible to calculate.

Odd, as NASA etc seem to calculate very large budget requirements

: Hence, not contributing to further scientific research is equivalent to being a free rider. Hence since science and technology are in many ways public goods, they should be funded by the public also.

Still comes up against the "we dont want to" problem which is poorly tackled by 'go to jail' laws.

: That's why I use the term gradually. We take them by surprise an d only take a few of them.

I think most of them are pretty clever and will have a leaving threshold

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