: : : WW: Research and organize? Since most working people don't have the time to "research and organize" they can only join in as followers - I suppose you will do the researching and organizing for us?
: : : Qx: Smart guy this one.lots of assuming and a huge need for bickering.
: WW: Well, father paranoia, who is going to do the organizing and researching? You haven't answered the question.
: Qx: Typical ad-hominems that even Sendero would have found useful in its formative period. Winslow knows the answer but keeps up with the drivel. Therefore I don't need to answer this sicko.
More elitist posturing while dodging the question yet again. Are you hung up?
: : : WW: Unity and unifocality are the mantras of state and proto-state apparatuses.
: : : Qx: Well, these are cute terms. Did you get this from some management theory course?
: WW: Why are these "cute" terms?
: Qx: Because they reek of an attempt to sound sophisticated. Is that something you crave?
Aww, cute little Quincunx.
: WW: Why do you assume I am a manager?
: Qx: Oooooops, straw man here.
Uh - you just asked me if I took a management theory course. The straw is in your ear.
: WW: It seems to me that you are just pissed off because I dare to criticise the "left".
: Qx: Actually, I dare to question your honesty and that makes you very angry. I have no reason to be angry. Just skeptical.
Yeah right. Whatever you say. I think you are angry because your little cyber-reputation is damaged due to your own desire to mud-wrestle with me (down and dirty yee ha!). Your assumption that I have a "hate-on" for you is funny as shit. How could I hate you? You aren't important enough to hate. More vanity on your part. Now, old Gilligan's Island reruns I hate.
: : : WW: Even those fringe left groups that are explicitly anti-state have as their axis activities that are geared to unity and unifocal forms.
: : : Qx: Please repeat in English.
: WW: Uh, o.k. Demonstrations, mass meetings, strikes, and other fringe-left shenanigans are all premised on unity and, implicit in them, are both representation and delegation. The logic for these events is that they are shows of strength and thus in the interest of wage workers. I think these activities are really just occasions for displaying the strength of leaders and organizations.
: Qx: If it's a trade union you may be right but if its the IWW then you're dead wrong. As usual. BTW, saying things such as "axis activities that are geared to unity and unifocal forms" is hardly understandable to wage workers but then if you're a statistician it could be great fun to haggle over the details.
Tell me why I'm dead wrong about the IWW? Why are terms like unity, axis, unifocality, "hardly understandable to wage-workers"? Sounds like more elitist posturing from Quincunx.
: : : WW: We don't need your pseudo, anti-vanguardist bullshit Quincunx -
: : : Qx: Who is "we"? That might make your rantings a bit clearer.
: WW: Wage workers. And the IWW has a program and structure which employs representation and delegation. That's what I consider phony.
: Qx: So, by stating thqat you're claiming to represent "wage workers". That's bogus as all beat hell.
O.k. I made a mistake with "we" - that was unintentional. It's just that snobs like you put me on the defensive.
: : : WW: jeez, at least the Leninists are honest about it.
: : : Qx: I rather doubt that. Many Leninists go right into historical denial mode when confronted with the huge amouunts of evidence against Lenin.
: WW: I wasn't talking about Lenin's (or Leninists') past transgressions - duh.
: Qx: Yes, you were. You stated that just previously.
No, I was not.
: WW:You know they are quite explicit about the need for a vanguard party - they call a spade a spade, unlike other fringe left groups who pretend to reject vanguardism.
: Qx: Then why don't you join a Leninist sect? What? You scared of becoming P.C.?
vanguardist sects, anti-vanguardist sects - I don't see a big difference. And you can quote all the phrases about "industrial government" you like; this sheds little light on the process of social transformation. Funny thing is, I almost joined the IWW a couple years back UNTIL THEY ASKED ME FOR FORTY FUCKING DOLLARS!