- McLibel -

Change the system

Posted by: Gideon Hallett ( n/a, UK ) on June 26, 1997 at 19:25:06:

In Reply to: We are all guilty!! posted by EEE on June 26, 1997 at 09:49:22:

: I realize that a lot of the attacks on McDonald's are for "murdering" animals and paying low wages. But, if murder is the taking of a life, than aren't vegetarians, "murdering plants"??

There's been a fairly vociferous argument on this already here. I will say this; eating plants does not necessarily mean killing them. You don't kill potatoes by harvesting their tubers, an apple doesn't kill the tree. Eating meat de facto involves the death of something - you can't just lop off a leg and let the rest be.

: If people who eat at McDonald's are guilty of supporting low wages, than are vegetarians also guilty of the same exploitation of farm workers or workers that get paid very little to pick these vegetables? How many of these workers are paid overtime?? How many of these workers are given decent working conditions? I haven't heard anyone come to their defense. And what about all the pesticides that are sprayed on these vegetables which harm our environment, are ingested into our systems, and harm the animals in surrounding areas?

Ahem? Organic food? Fair trade? There are an ever-increasing number of schemes starting up where you can get box delivery of organic fruit and veg and be reasonably sure that the workers have been paid fairly.

: If you ask me, we are all just as guilty as McDonald's, including anyone and everyone that lives on this earth, of doing our own little part in harming the environment.

To paraphrase; We're all bad and horrid and deserve to suffer, I feel guilty about eating meat and I'd like to displace some of it in your direction. Share and enjoy!
(Are you a Catholic?)

: And anyone that has purchased anything from nearly anywhere, is guilty in some form of supporting these multi-national cooperations, that MCdonald's represents, whether it's a car, a computer or a widget.

At the moment, that's pretty much true to a greater or lesser extent. That doesn't mean it's the way it _has_ to be, or that all of us aren't capable of cleaning up our act to a large degree. Cars: don't drive, use public transport. A lot of the widgets we surround ourselves are totally redundant. They've got to go sooner or later.

: And, do any of you go to your local grocer and investigate the conditions that your meat or vegetables were preped under? Do you have any idea what the conditions of your grocers suppliers are? I seriously doubt it!!!

Of course, if you use organic food, you can be sure it's not too unhealthy. As for the conditions, it's a bond of trust. Since most organic food suppliers are small cooperatives, they don't have a parasitic heirarchy of bosses siphoning off profits. Which means that they don't have the same "pressure from above" to reduce production costs (which causes things like battery chicken plants).

: so, he whom is without sin, let him cast the first stone!! (OOOPS, A LOT OF YOU GUILTIES ALREADY HAVE)

Uh-oh. A sentence that quotes the Bible, contains hypocrisy and totally fails to have a redemptive approach of any sort or any positive suggestions. I think that counts 10 on the WASP scale...

Didn't you ever consider:

1. If I accuse others of being as bad as me, then accuse them of "casting the first stone" I'm being just as hypocritical as they are.

2. Things are only the way they are because the majority of people allow them to be, even if this entails disenfranchisement of the majority. So the system is bad, so we're swimming in our own crap...
What are YOU going to do about it?

It's not going to get better by some mystical Barney-isation of society. It's going to get better because a minority of people have the guts and the courage to stand up to the system and all it can do.

3. Guilt is a relative term, not an absolute.

We may all be guilty (though I dislike the whole "guilt" thing, it's far too negative). Does that mean that someone who uses virtually no planetary resources is as "guilty" as Burger Lover, who uses resources as if there were no tomorrow (and could be right)?

In short, please try to think a bit before shooting yer mouth off. Also, if you think the system is awful, don't treat it as your God-given lot in life. Change it.

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