- Capitalism and Alternatives -

Employers reliant on us

Posted by: Ted ( T R U, Madison, WI, USA ) on September 07, 1997 at 23:36:24:

In Reply to: Are you reliant on you employer? posted by Mike Bednarz on September 07, 1997 at 13:28:33:

: Every time some ignorant person claims the USSR to be proven failure of communism, you scream at them, correctly, that Russia was not communist. However subsidies and high defense spending are no more capitalism then China is socialism. I AM NOT for the status quo, I AM for a purer CAPITALISM.

As in laissez-faire, caveat emptor capitalism? A handful of extremely rich individuals subjecting the rest of us to toiling in their factories, with no pesky minimum wage laws to stand in the way of their profit margins? Poisoned food products, unsafe merchandise, with no regulations to protect consumers? That sounds like the status quo to me. I can see how you'd be in favor of such a scenario.

: I'd like to know what business has managers take three hour lunches; I'd like to invest in their competitors-- they won't be around too long.

I'd like to know how much time you've spent in American Business Enterprise, as opposed to reading Libertarian Party texts. It's hard to know when the managers' "work" ends and their lunch begins. When I see them in their offices, shooting the breeze and laughing it up, I wonder how much actual effort is being expended. Meanwhile, the people on the factory floor and in the offices are in a constant flurry of activity. Draw your own conclusions.

: Just like Enviromentalists-- A few whakos with too much idle time can counter the opinions of millions of sensible working people. Is this democracy?

I'm sure you're a great champion of working people and their sensible natures. Except when they decide to strike. As I understand it, those environmentalist "whackos" (you can do better than regurgitating Rush Limbaugh's pet phrase) are campaigning for clean air and water, and protection of wilderness. Many working people, sensible folk that they are, favor the same things. Environmentalists want logging and mining companies to be responsible for their actions. Apparently that's enough to outrage business sector cheerleaders like yourself.
: Why don't you go to work for yourself and see how much you really produce (minus the other half of social security normally paid by your employer, that you probably don't even know exsists). A robbery is forced, working is volentary, If you don't like what your doing go elsewhere. : PREDICTED SOCIALIST RESPONSE: "Wow, I get to choose between thieves!!"

You'd better stick to predicting the stock market. Working is voluntary? Maybe for those with inherited wealth. The rest of us have to eat. You'd know this if you'd bother to talk to workers.

: MY EARLY ANSWER: In your system I have to pay to one thief- the government, or as you like to say "The people", that somehow vote, not by majority, but simply by consensus! Socialism steals from produceres in the true sense of robbery, that is, if you live under the socialism you are coersed to give to "the people", no choice whatsoever.

Coerced to give, therefore unable to afford that second Cadillac. What a nightmare. How much better to have a system that rewards those who wish to wield power over the less fortunate. No coercion there.

: Are you reliant on you employer? Does anyone have to pay your employer? In your system we are and do.

Most of the value of my production is taken from me by my employer. Which is to say, I pay my employer. That's "your" system.


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