Day 111 - 30 Mar 95 - Page 19


     
     1        pathogen bacteria but may give an indication of the extent
     2        to which hygiene controls are working or not working.  We
     3        have had some evidence about testing for specific
     4        pathogenic bacteria like E.Coli and salmonella.
     5
     6        I do not think there has been any real contest about the
     7        general microbiological background, if I can describe it in
     8        that way, which is not to stop you asking Ms. Hovi
     9        questions about it if she said something to you which makes
    10        you think that there is a relevant gap in our general state
    11        of knowledge about it but, otherwise, one can describe that
    12        always common ground in the general microbiological
    13        background which is the general springboard for you to
    14        elicit from Ms. Hovi such evidence as you wish to adduce
    15        about practices or non-practices at Jarrett, which you may
    16        wish to argue at the end of the day to me, give rise to a
    17        greater risk of food poisoning of those who being served in
    18        McDonald's happen to eat meat which came from Jarretts to
    19        McKey and then on to McDonald's at least if it was not
    20        properly cooked before being served to McDonald's
    21        customers.
    22
    23        I hope that is a fair, global view of the situation.
    24
    25   MR. MORRIS:  Yes.
    26
    27   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  You have already put Ms. Hovi's statement in.
    28        I have read it several times. I read it again just before
    29        I came into this court this morning.  Even though it may
    30        cover ground we have covered before, if you wanted to ask
    31        her, going through each of the things which she has
    32        enumerated under paragraph 6, which you consider to be
    33        still alive, and each of the things which are enumerated
    34        under paragraph 7, how, if at all, Ms. Hovi thinks that
    35        leads to a risk of food poisoning and what her view of the
    36        extent of the risk is, then please do so, but I suggest
    37        that is what you want to ask.
    38
    39        If I can give an example:  You could say to her: "In
    40        paragraph 6, part 3, you say that the boning temperatures
    41        of the meat in the boning hall at Alec Jarrett were, as a
    42        rule, well above 7 degrees Centigrade".  Ms. Hovi has now
    43        expanded on that to say that when she took temperatures of
    44        the carcasses before they either went off as whole
    45        carcasses, or went into the boning room to be deboned, they
    46        were often -- I am not purporting to be word perfect now --
    47        but the effect of it was they were often above 7 degrees
    48        Centigrade.  You can ask her:  "Well, what do you make of
    49        that from a health point of view?"
    50 
    51        Just as an example, under 7 you could say:  "You say under 
    52        7, the fourth item, throughout the plant there was a 
    53        shortage of facilities for disinfection of hand tools and
    54        knives", with or without reference to the plan, you could
    55        ask her to say:  "What do you mean by 'a shortage'?  What
    56        should there have been which there was not?"  Again, you
    57        can say: "And what are the implications of that, in your
    58        view, so far as food safety is concerned?"
    59
    60        Although Ms. Hovi is your witness, I suggest that that

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