- Capitalism and Alternatives -

If I bought the next round of drinks and laughed at your jokes, would you ditch your class orienation and become a Marxist?

Posted by: Stoller on March 01, 19100 at 13:17:00:

In Reply to: Always the snide one, aren't you? posted by MDG on March 01, 19100 at 00:29:25:

: The fact that violent revolutions have taken place does not contradict what I said, namely, that people with children are loathe to support a violent upheaval of society. Unless that society is already more violent than a potential revolution, that is -- which is not the case with life in the USA circa 2000.

I don't agree. Revolutions occur because the current ruling class cannot move society foward in regard to productive forces and, thus, their rule becomes a fetter upon the potential productive capacity of society. This is resolved when another class emerges that can move the productive forces of society forward. Often there is no violence UNTIL the ruling class is actually challenged.

Further, we must admit the possibility that the 'peace' enjoyed throughout today's society is no indication of pan-class satisfaction---but, rather, that this 'peace' is simply the bounty of one class's victory over another. Remember, truces are called when one side surrenders.

Stoller: [D]emocracy came into the world by ANYTHING but democratic means.

: Are you happy with the results?

Compared to feudalism---yes indeed. Does humanity STILL have a long way to go? Without a doubt!

: Please don't put words in my mouth, Barry. You know from my previous postings to you that I believe a classless society should be our ultimate destination. Where there is disagreement here is, how shall that destination be arrived at?

This is where we disagree. I believe that the reforms and legal evolution you champion (at this point in time) is nothing but a cheap nostrum to dupe those who are PRESENTLY really hurting under current social relations. Reforms can only go so far---and, judging by the repeal of most of the reforms of the 20th century, the progressive limits of (bourgeois) democracy have come and gone.

Stoller:...ever heard of the 'right to the first night'?

: Rich dudes fucking women at their whim? Times sure have changed.

Quantitatively---not qualitatively. Full freedom of marriage can only occur when ALL private property in the means of production are transformed into socialistic ownership; public child care centers, laundries, and dining halls are made accessible to all; and job rotation becomes a cultural norm. Care to say that your precious 'eventual, incremental reforms' will ever get us there?

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