: For a demonstration of what I'm talking about, the creative combination of rationality and morality, check out John Rawls "A theory of Justice", you would no doubt dismiss it as pure morality but the rational basis for empathy etc. is sound.
I dont mind moral discussions, but not sheer emotional whimsy - it says only 'this is my view so there' and nothing more.
: Still it's pretty socialist to do that without reward.
Youre reward is in your satisfaction. You choose to do it over a number of alternative uses of your time and effort. There is reward.
: Owing no loyalty to institutions and seeing their purpose as tactical I realise that it is change in peoples Characters that is most important.
Absolutely. I could criticise the UN and WTO and IMF and all those institutions too, but if enough people give sanction and support to their existance then they exist. What 'the people' want / are satisfied with drives the rest.
: Well I'll disagree with you both
: I dont like the way some socialist think that if they can erect a super structure, invest it with power, and execute all opposition then thye will live in a Utopia of Freedom, they are a greater enamy to me than people like yourself even.
I should think so!
: I'm not sure what exactly your saying.
That the effort it takes to learn about politics is large, the benefit of one vote (its likelihood at changing anything) is minute - so people dont bother. Nor do they mumble about where to put the zebra crossing in local council meetings - it isnt a good use of their time, they think.
: If the whole engineering is so incredible, and the incredulity is good it stops paranoia and demands proof, why are there so many Spin Doctors, Corporate PR agencies, Marketing and Advertising agencies? You have to admit that current advertising, for instance, isnt really aimed at resolving the "lack of information" experienced by consumers, its propanganda.
Have you ever turned it round and thought 'jeez they have to do all that shit just to get someone to *try* a pepsi cola for once?' Makes it look like what it is, an enormous hammer to push the nail in a millemetre more.
: Since when has Logic had anything to do with anything in the real world? The most recent time I almost lost my job, a relation had died and the boss started giving me abuse, now I mean real abuse here not authoritarian orders or anything, because he was hung over and money from the tills from the last shift was unaccounted for I merely spoke back and the Bastard ordered me out the back and squared up to me, like for fighting, but I refused to cower down because the law was on my side (that and he knows if he hit me it'd be the very last thing he'd ever do).
Youre boss sounds like a piece of shit. You really should look around. There are other low pay jobs with nicer folk if you want the cash.