: : So Keynes, Hobson, Hobhouse, T.H. Green, T.H. Marshall, John Rawls what are these self-proclaimed liberals?
: Not the same as liberals JS Mill and Locke. Accept it Lark - the term 'neo-liberal' is essentially meaningless.
So you should be talking about classical liberalism then? It's interesting you keep mentioning J.S.Mill enthusiastic co-opertaive socialist if I remember correctly, his wife went the whole hog and supported state planning too.
He was one hundred percent on most of his civil libertarianism though, out of respect I wont mention his hatred of Catholics and irish and proclaimations, in a very privileged class style, that despotism is a good system for dealing with savages, so who's the savages?
: : The facts are Gee that I've done this in the past and probubly will in the future, like I said I dont think you'd just go along with the system of China or Cuba uncritically if it was established in the US so why suggest that it's the most logical thing for me to do?
: You'd choose, within your means to do so. If where I lived became like China I'd try very hard to leave it - knowing that if a vast majority were sanctioning the change then I alone chould not change it.
So take the alternative dimension to this one where world statism (I wont say communism or socialism because you know from debating with comrade deathy that China etc. arent communist) is prevailant what do you do? I bet you aggitate for reform where it's permitted right.
:That you have done this 'helping others' before (what was that then? out of interest) is fine - youve chosen it as your best use of time from the alternatives at the time.
I've worked on and off with Catholic aid organisations which ship materials over to the victims of laissz-faire or military capitalist regimes in the third world.
:Living in the west, in anything, creates more opportunities to go help people - if only because there tends to be more wealth around.
Fact but it is like putting a bandaid on a cancer Gee.
: : Really? That would be like me saying to a capitalist in Cuba or China why arent you Capitalist? Dont suggest that there arent very real constraints.
: were talking about going out and helping folk - there arent many constrainsts in the west - a quick review of the appropriate literature shows up hundreds of opportunities to go to places abroad and at home to be of help to others - the only constraint is your need for food and shelter, mostly provided in these cases.
However Gee there are penalties for employing your time in this way, you dont get to lie up and rent videos, enjoy a few jars with your mates etc. while your attempting you change things.
That's not to mention loss of earnings etc.
:Even if you had to work most poeple can earn enough to place them safe from lack of food & shelter and still have enough hours a week and at weekends to be out there helping others.
Well altruism only goes so far.
: So why isnt everyone doing that?
because it's not their individual responsibility, the state shouldnt be able to shrug of it's obligations to those it governs.
: : Lost it here Gee
: so I can see. Refusing to acknowledge your role in choosing from alternatives is rather sad.
: Your not a leaf on the breeze.
Er....Would that be an Oak Leaf?