- Capitalism and Alternatives -

tip of iceberg

Posted by: Gee ( si ) on October 29, 1999 at 13:26:18:

In Reply to: Give me THIS or give me death posted by Deep Dad Nine on October 29, 1999 at 11:24:03:

: Out of all the systems of government and economics discussed in this form, which one would be best at bringing about the following:

In all seriousness I think it would have to be a dictatorship of sorts - because in each case there are no doubt counter-interests and counter views to the 11 goals you have stated. In any kind of democracy those counter views would be heard, no doubt compromises and reversals would occur in some areas and I'd wager that none of the 11 goals given would be accomplished in the full extent that they are worded.

(I also hold that goal nr 11 is incompatible with goals 1-5, (maybe 9&10) - each of which require restrictions to work)

Let me quickly list some groups/people which, in a democracy would argue to reverse the goal and with whom compromise or concession may be necessary - and in which a dictatorship could simply be ridden over with force, I'll include some for groups too.

I'm not advocating either view, just pointing them out. If I mention 'company' I means its employees too.

1) An end to (or reversal of) our chemically intensive, monocropping farming practices that are destroying the earth's topsoil, polluting our water and polluting our food and replace them with enviromentally sound, sustainable farming methods.

A:Farmers, agriculture industry groups, consumer food price watchdogs (and some health ones), agriculture politicians
F: Innovative 'natural' farmers, 'natural' segment of food industry, health watch consumer groups.

2) An end to the madness of introducing genetically modified organisms into the environment, pushing terminator gene technology on starving 3rd world agricultures, and patenting seeds and other life forms that people may be dependent upon for good health or even for living.

A: The companies in question, 3rd world governments and populations who 'want food now, stop messing about', agriculture politicians.
F: Food companies without the patents, 3rd world activists (I means the ones that live in NYC), Some scientists and health watchdogs. Politicians who want to control the patents for power.

3) An end to the tremendous debts of starving third world nations that force them to divert their limited food supplies to the U.S.

A: US consumer groups, US companies in question, 3rd world suppliers who want dollars, 3rd world governments who take a cut. International government oriented banks (eg world bank)
F: 3rd world governments who want debt cancelled, 3rd world industries who cant compete with subsidised and state encouraged food export industries.

4) An end to the deforestation of our planet.

A:Foresters, consumers who want wood / paper without price hikes, 3rd world populations who want more land.
F: Environmentalists & Scientists & medical people who want the Forest kept. Populist governments on a 'green' ticket.

5) An end to the chronicly abusive, symptom oriented, corrupt western medical establishment
that's hurting more people than its helping at an outrageous cost.

A: The "western medical establishment", fearful consumer groups, drug companies, politicians getting a career out of messing with medicine, the FDA
F: alternate and 'non-sympton obsessed' medicine practitioners (including hucksters sadly) and companies, Consumer health concern bodies.

6) An end to victimless crime legislation that punishes people for things that primarily effect only themselves, again at an outragous expense to taxpayers.

A: Religious 'conservative' poeple, morally outraged groups (eg those against porn, gambling etc), populist politicians, police forces
F: Libertarians of all walks, people engaged in 'victimless crimes'

7) An end to rediculous drug war practices and propaganda such as "zero tolerance", asset forfeiture, dry busts, three strikes, DARE etc.

A: Religious 'conservative' poeple, morally outraged groups (eg those against drugs, tolerance etc), populist politicians, police forces & prisons, medical people afraid of states of health/mind, drug barons (whose wealth is only possible by the illegitimacy of their 'business' creating massive prices and curtailing competition) who would have to 'go straight'
F: Libertarians of all walks, people engaged in 'victimless crimes', some drug companies.

8) An end to the legal system that treats people suffering from drug addictions like criminals instead of like patients.

A: See Nr 7 and add - the legal system, lawyers
F: See Nr 7 and add some psychologists and doctors

9) An end to our monopolized fossil fuel economy that pollutes our air and helps keep us in a lifelong perpetual state of having to earn federal reserve notes to cover our electric bills and a consequent conversion to renewable energy alternatives.

A: The US energy politicians, US fossil fuel businesses, Car users
F: Innovative companies including makers of renewable/sustainable energy. Environmentalists.

10) An education system that doesn't take 12 years to teach kids how to read and perform long division and teaches them a history other than the version written by rich white males.

A: The entire state education institution and Teachers union etc (those who like the way it is), Parents fearing the replacement of one 'indoctrination' with a 'politically correct' or otherwise fallacious re-interpretation of history.
F: Educators who want children to *really* learn skills for use throughout life, stimulate independant critical minds etc, Many libertarian types who want to seperate education from state. Companies and organisations who want skilled poeple.

11) An end to a need for bumper stickers that say "The U.S. Constitution. Void where
prohibited by law."

A: Poeple, organisations & politicians who want to do away with limitations of the power of state.
F: Poeple, organisations & politicians(rare!) who want to do away with the imposition of limitations of the autonomy of the person.

And thats just the tip of the iceberg!

Follow Ups:

The Debating Room Post a Followup