- Capitalism and Alternatives -

If you put as much attention into your 'theories' as I do my typos, then we might have an interesting debate

Posted by: Stoller on December 10, 1999 at 00:23:41:

In Reply to: That took 3 attempts? posted by Gee on December 09, 1999 at 13:47:54:

: You deny Gort or any business creator has any special ability by expounding on the role of luck and privilege and do so in a manner dripping with scorn for such people.

Most capitalist's 'special ability' is the ability to expropriate as much surplus labor from their employees as permitted by law.

If you want to get into bed with someone who: boasts about how hunger 'helps' people appreciate menial work, denies his employees health care, pays his workers by the piece---and seems to have a real turn-over problem, then enjoy yourself. . .

The belief that BS and a merry band of gun toting rebels can seize power, nominally on behalf of the working class he condescends with the very notion of having to lead them to water, has been catastrophically played out so often on earth that one must assume BS has a gap in his Kolb learning cycle.

What a dodge.

: You're talking about yourself here.

No, YOU are talking about me (and falsely).

As I told Gee only a day or two ago, if the MAJORITY of proletarians DO NOT want socialism, then it won't happen.

: And now you accept the position that it requires voluntary assent and not your vangaurdism.

'Voluntary' assent for the WORKING CLASS---not everyone.

Gee is (again!) assuming that I advocate terrorism and adventurism. NOT TRUE.

: When you drop your vangaurdist position people stop thinking of you as the above.

No, I think MOST people are intelligent to know the difference between a vanguard party and a terrorist group.

Of course, with propagandists like you continually screaming that they're the same, efforts will need to be redoubled. . .

: You need those Rockefellers, Fords, Gorts and Gates to organise production for you to take it.

Stop with the Ayn Rand nonsense, please.

Most of the 'prodigious' science and technology that capitalists monopolize has been either invented under CONTRACT to them by scientific wage-workers or invented under government-subsidized research programs that the TAX-PAYERS provide.

Stoller :
Gee's assertion that the millionaire and the pauper's 'want' is the SAME is nonsense.

: 'i want more' as a principle is applicable as motivation to either. What they want more of may be different -that they want more is the same.

Please read Schedules of Reinforcement to see a scientific exposition to the contrary. (BTW, where do YOUR positions come from? Atlas Shrugged and Time magazine?)

: The rest was as predicted. Pretty much the 'but capital is stolen therefore workers pay it really'. Fine, whatever way you cut it the worker doesnt pay tax out of his income - that was RD's point directed at those who compalin of income tax - his basis (that its exploited) is the same but the explanation clearer than your hyperbole retort of the previous post. The concept of exploitaion is one that has been discussed by Joel Jacobson, and ignored by you.

If you want to claim that workers pay NO taxes and business pays ALL the taxes, don't let me stop you.

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