: Its an interesting point. You have been keen to say how socialism requires the activity of all those capitalists over a duration in order for the bedrock to be created. You need capitalism prior to taking over.
You see this is where he's wrong Gee, where I'd pick a bone with him, his vision is a kind of continuity from capitalism right? You've said it yourself he needs capitalism and it's organisation etc. to preceed for his 'order', his 'order' even preserves a lot of elements of capitalism like management intact and unchanged.
The proper position should be class war preceeding no class war, post class war or classless society regardless if the previous order was fuedal, capitalist, 'socialist' or dictator orientated.
: Have you considered that it may be way too soon - that now, in the year 2000, the way people live is simply not compatible. Not until those 'evil capitalists' have prepared even greater technologies which do almost all the laboring in productive industry without man, leaving only the more flexible 'circulation' work, will there be even the dimmest chance of a successful socialist society without the compulsion the socialists on this board reject?
There is truth in what you say but as work becomes obsolete through technology etc. what will the unemployed do? Some kind of restructuring will have to take place, demanding changed social relations and I believe progress towards a classless society by reform or whatever.
: Incidently, as all this will come about due to capitalism (albeit heavily 'mixed'), and due to the motivations of those people within capitalism - how can you be sure that things will still be done as eagerly and as well when you have removed that which made it possible in the first place? What kind of total shift will you need in people?
I dont know what kind of total shift you need Gee, I've got a few qualifications in business and a lot of workplace physcologists and motivational/behavioural experts have been saying that more autonomy and comfort less tyranny really motivates people more than money, at least that's what they say, it's maybe what business people want to hear, but if it's true it counts in our favour man.
: : preindustrial labor. Which is also known as scarcity and poverty.
Indeed in agreement or in opposition? I'm opposed I think an accurate portrayal of socialism and liberty/freedom can be seen in Star Trek the next generation, the strollerites are the Borg, RD and co. are the federation, you could be a ferengie and me, well I'd probably roam the galaxy in a wee solitary ship reading books and writting notes.