- Capitalism and Alternatives -

Through the eyes of a middle class white boy

Posted by: David ( USA ) on February 25, 19100 at 00:47:51:

In Reply to: I think the end if I had no choice I'd have fought on the Yankee side posted by Lark on February 24, 19100 at 11:57:44:

: :You see, the civil war was not started over slavery issues, it was started because the south felt that they had no say in congress or in the political process of the country.

: I'm not so sure about that, it would be difficult to generalise about the reasons for a confederate soldier fighting in the confederate army, personally I understand the conflict of identity and loyalty for someone in a federal arrangement, I mean would be first loyal to Ireland or the European Union, and then if your an intellectual you may wish to consider the whether Confederal government is preferable to federal government. However that said from the history books I've read the popular sentiment of the grass roots and footsoldiers in the creation of the confederacy and secession from the union movement was a meld of religious sentiment, racialism and libertarian Capitalism (the interference of the Federal Government in slavery was for a lot of people an interference in the right to property).

This is true. There are many reasons for southern soldiers taking up arms for the confederates, many of them, however, had little real understanding of the political circumstances other than what had been espoused by the men who forged ahead with the secession. It is obvious that they were all pretty much racist, I mean, the Union soldiers were just as racist as the Confederate ones.
Personally, there is little doubt in my mind about what I would have done. Were I a Southerner I would have fought on the Confederates side. Chances are I probably would have been racist, too. Had I lived in the North than I would have fought on the Union's side and probably still have been racist. Perhaps if I were more learned I would have been an abolitionist but they only comprised the top brass of academia who understood the issues. Everyone else was technically racist, if not violently so.
If I lived on a border state it would have been a tough choice. From the few years I have spent in the South, I have fallen in love with it. Virgina is one of the most beautiful places I have ever seen. The rolling countryside, the warmth, even the people are much friendlier.

: I think the end if I had no choice I'd have fought on the Yankee side, I think Theoreou's defense of John Brown's attempted insurrection in Civil Disobediance would sway me to the Yankee side but that said I am not really considering it in the historucal context if I'd known slavery all my life and naturally believed black people where property I might feel differently, socialisation is a poor defense but it is one.

Exactly. It is hard to realistically imagine yourself in that sort of era, holding ideas that to us are horrible, but to them was perfectly acceptable.
Who knows, perhaps in the future people will look back on us as being absolutely deranged for some of the ideas we hold.

: Democracy was a little useless back then right enough and I am aware of Lincoln's positions I dont know why everyone is that happy for him, sure he saved the union but he wasnt a great liberator of slaves or anything.

Yeah, I have not understood that either. In fact, he had even stated that he did not think that Blacks were superior to whites, only that they should not be enslaved. There is also the issue of politics, the European nations were ready to support Jefferson Davis and the Confederates until the North abolished slavery, at which point they did not get involved as they did not want to be seen as supporting slavery.

: Well, I might disagree to the extent that I've already described but I understand that neither side let black folk fight and only permitted it in the end as a means to bolster moral or create a ready supply of cannon fodder.

Actually, there were several all black regiments, but few of them ever saw any action and were essentially the grunt workers for the army. They were used to dig earthenworks and dig graves. They were also treated horribly, recieving less pay than the white soldiers. A good movie about an all Black regiment is Glory.

: : I think marriage is about more than procreation. Marriage is about dedicating yourself to someone else you love and swearing to remain faithful to them. Procreation is just one part of marriage. Besides, a gay couple could always adopt. Or, in the case of lesbians, they could use artificial insemination.

: Perhaps that is right but then there is nothing really to differentiate a family from an association or a friendship, the benefit fraud would be off the scale too.

What is actually happening now though are lesbians marrying gay men and then pursuing their own love interests for the benefits. Perhaps a solution would be to eliminate benefits altogether.

Follow Ups:

The Debating Room Post a Followup