- Capitalism and Alternatives -

Bloody hard yer know...

Posted by: Red Deathy ( Socialist Party, UK ) on March 23, 1999 at 13:59:05:

In Reply to: being a socialist in the west - the easy life posted by Crimson Tide on March 23, 1999 at 11:02:12:

: Quick note - thanks for answering my exploitation question, i never got back to comment but ive just read em all. I'm not sure anyone really got the point though, just saying 'coz there are other capitalists' doesnt answer the prob of the market halving every cycle as suggested by the exploitation theory - and the fact it isnt happening.

You were neglecting consumption by capitalists.

: Anyway, the question. Being a socialist in the west is very easy, ive been reading some posts - it seems that socialism cant happen coz the people arent ready for it, coz it needs to be implemented worldwide all at once. (why? cant have another country showing us up by being wealthier, healthier and happier?).

1:Socialism must be voluntary, we can't force it on them.
2:It must be worldwide, because: a)the rest of teh capitalist world would try to crush it. b)We are all part of one big, world-wide economic system, socialism in one country leads to impoverishment. teh two systems cannot co-exist.

: So the socialist doesnt have to defend anything (oh cuba, ussr, n korea, china - you see theyre not real socialists - but you naughty americans, you are real capitalist pigs).

No, most Americans aren't, only the five to ten percent who are capitalists.

:Ive done this before, just criticized the west behind the safety of the 'cuba aint socialist' and 'humanity is not ready for it' bull.

Humanity is ready for it, they just have to want to do it, feel teh need for it.

: More over all the socialists who like debating seem to imagine (openly or implicitly) theyll be in charge, or at least highly influential in a socialist society. Thats why they dont run off to cuba - because they'll just end up chopping logs or something - and not doing what they want.

Most capitalist apologists assume taht they will be in charge, teh entreprenuers, etc. I always assume I'll be working with my friends,, I don't want to be in charge, that would suck.

: "Ah comrade, we the people are most intrigued by your insights into the socialist ideal, but after much debate the direct democratic vote has concluded that you will best serve the good of your fellow comrades by digging in the salt mines - blessed are you brother, long live the people etc"

But that wouldn't happen because socialism is based on freedom of work and association, no one would be forced to do anything.

: Ofcourse you could try and appeal, compete for votes, charm, lie, blackmail and bribe - or did you think socialism wont attract the machievelan charmers and power seekers?

Well, there wouldn't be any positions of power, and all officials would be immediately removeable.

: Thats the real possibility of your lives socialists, whether state or 'little' direct democracies you may not get the fun role you crave,a nd get a shit one influenced by the clever persuasive force of 'natural' leaders.

Who ever said anything about 'natural leaders' down with leadership I say!

: So why didnt you go to Cuba? I figured out why i didnt.

Because its a tin-pot state capitalist state.

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