- Capitalism and Alternatives -


Posted by: Red Deathy ( Socialist Party, UK ) on April 19, 1999 at 13:27:20:

In Reply to: Coagulation and Lead-ry posted by Winslow Wacker on April 18, 1999 at 16:36:29:

:The workers' self-activity intensified: many stopped paying their dues and kept side-stepping the union leadership until the "sacrifices" were dropped. Coagulation may not even be created by representation but it certainly engenders it.

Likewise the number of 'unofficial' strikes that have arisen in because of the effects of British Antio-union laws. Though I would be loath to join the Trotskyists and start spreadiing the myth of the revolutionary workers being stymied by union leadership, because that just leads to more and more people trying to become the 'leaders' (you know the sort of argument 'The revolution in [insert country] in [insert year]failed due to the lack of an adequate coherent revolutionary leadership.'- they are monotonously predictable in churning that one out...

: The point is that our struggle (practice) isn't the result of a certain theory, instead our struggle has consequences for theory.

hmm, yes, people do struggle, but until it becomes conscious struggle, i.e., until it is motivated by theory or wider goals of some sort, of a broader utopian vision, a direction and a specific aim (abolish the wages system, say), it won't get anywhere, sponteneism is dangerous, and can lead to serious defeats.

: WW: Good points.

Problem being- say, take Ireland, should we advocate working through irish nationalism, I'd rather not, I find nationalism of any form an odious pernicious creed, likewise, when identity politics turns into identity nationalism, and we get ASA syndrome (every speech begins, 'As a gay man/asian woman/etc.') I think it becomes more debilitating than liberating, particularism is no good, we need to reconstitute uuniversalism, and I think the first way to do that is to drop the pretentions to omnipotence for the workers movement, i.e. ditch reformism, and attempts to run peoples lives, and campiagn solely for socialism...(me, a stuck record, never...)

WW: : Theories of imperialism continue to be used to camouflage the degradation of wageworkers' lives in "imperialist centers", notably western Europe and America.

There is imperialism, but the real myth is 'national interest', we neeed to dig up the Tory Disreali, who pointed out that there are two nations- the rich and teh poor, their interests are inimicable...

: WW: Well there are still a hell of a lot of big "Marxist-Leninist" groups outside of the USA (e.g. FARC and ELN in Colombia) who still serve up the old nationalist rigamarole.

Usually because they are nasty old nationalists.

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