- Capitalism and Alternatives -

socialism will take time

Posted by: Lark on July 16, 1999 at 21:11:13:

In Reply to: John Sweeney's Proposal posted by Nikhil Jaikumar on July 16, 1999 at 03:18:35:

: I was bringing this pint up when I was arguing with a Trotskyist (from Boston College!) on my lunch break yesterday. He said I was a typical Allende style reformist, and that Allende's overthrow proved that Allende-ism could not work. Completely ignoring the fact that had the US not intervened, or intervened on teh right side, Chile would still probably be socialist today.

: What do you all think?

I think you should have clouted the Trot that's usually what I do.

That proposal sounds great to me but it's the same as any any-way-decent proposal unless it was brought in by the G8, UN, EU and US all at once the rich bastards would just move across national boundaries to some poor wee nation that dosent know what taxation is.

As for all the Allendeism jibes tell this guy to grow up realise that Trotsky was never anything but an authoritarian critic of another authoritarian, it wasnt socialism it was party politics and all he would ever have done was put Trot inc. totalitarianism in the place of Stalin plc. Allende knew that democracy was where it was at, even if he had to use a regressive parliamentary system, and that's very important the whole "seize power and to hell with our opponents then" approach should and must be consigned to the dustbin of history (trotter said that I think).

People, citizens, individuals are the state and it's stupid therefore to talk about either "taking it over" or "tearing it down" or destroying it. It can change as peoples modes of thought, behaviour and social organisation are influenced through persuasion.

Talk of "Great usurpations" are just an over simplistic means of escaping thought, as in, what way will we organise? Oh it'll all happen post revolution.

Reform and persuasion may take a long time but as I've said before capitalism, the new Rome, wasnt built in a day, if socialism is going to be permanent it is going to take a monumental amount of time.

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